Environmental Hero Captain Paul Watson Facing Possible Life Sentence - A radio interview with Lamya Essemlali President Sea Shepherd France + Rising Tide's 2023 podcast with Captain Paul Watson

Welcome to the first episode of RER. This is an interview we did on July 26th with the President of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society in France, Lamya Essemlali about the July 21st arrest in Nuuk Greenland of Captain Paul Watson, Founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, co-founder of Greenpeace, and star of Whale Wars (who recently has been living in France and this occurred during the Paris Olympics.) 

There are just a few more days until the 9/5 decision by Denmark to potentially extradite Captain Paul Watson to Japan” where he could face a life sentence.

On August 15, a Greenland court ruled that this 73-year-old Canadian American citizen “must continue to be detained until September 5th, in order to ensure his presence in connection with a decision on the issue of extradition to Japan. Captain Watson has appealed the court's decision. 

Just prior to that court decision, we spoke with Lamya Essemlali. At that time, she was in Greenland visiting Captain Watson in jail. Our conversation with her is enlightening as to his condition and the circumstances surrounding this issue.

We include a statement issued by Jane Goodall Institute & Dr. Jane Goodall, a conservationist, humanitarian, & crusader for the ethical treatment of animals.

This legendary ocean activist and crew were refueling in Nuuk, the capital of Greenland, a Danish territory on their way to "intercept" a new Japanese whaling factory vessel in the North Pacific when he was arrested. Japan accused Watson of causing damage to one of its whaling ships in the Antarctic two years earlier and causing injury.

News 8/15/24 - FRENCH 24 (Broadcasts to 522 million households worldwide.)

"Japan has accused Watson of injuring a Japanese crew member with a stink bomb intended to disrupt the whalers' activities in 2010. His lawyers on Thursday argued that he was innocent and demanded his immediate release. They asked to present video evidence to the court of the 2010 incident, which they said showed the Japanese crew members were not on deck when the stink bomb was thrown.

Lamya Essemlali, who was present at the court hearing, said "the court refused to view the video evidence ... which shows that the Japanese have fabricated evidence.” She added that Watson had not been granted a translator during the hearing, which she said was a violation of Danish law. She also stated that “it’s not normal, we didn’t underst

Planet Centric Media (non-profit)
Media production company promoting and creating community unity and environmental issues and action.

Mendonoma Whale & Seal Study
Founded by Scott & Tree Mercer to document the occurrence, diversity, & behavior of marine mammals.

KGUA Public Radio Sonoma & Mendocino CA
KGUA 88.3FM is an independent public media station located in Gualala, CA on the Northern CA coast.

Sea Storm Studios, Inc.
An audio/visual production company in the Sea Ranch, CA (US)

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Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;43;09
Unknown
Welcome to Resilient Earth Radio, where we host speakers from the United States and around the world to talk about critical issues facing our planet and the positive actions people are taking. I'm Leann Lindsey, producer and host, along with my co-producers and co-hosts Scott and Tree Mercer of The Mind and Whale and Seal Study. We talk about nature based economies that help rebalance Earth and raise awareness about the value of whales, elephants, mangroves, seagrass, the deep seas, waterways and forests.

00;00;43;11 - 00;01;29;10
Unknown
This awareness could lead to new laws, policies and procedures to help protect these valuable resources and encourage economies around them to replace the existing exploitation of oceans, forests and animals. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram and wherever you get your podcasts. The music for this show is castles by the sea, from international composer Erik Allman of the Sea Ranch in Sonoma County, California.

00;01;29;13 - 00;02;08;13
Unknown
Welcome to the first episode of Resilient Earth Radio. I'm Liane Lindsey, your host, along with Scott and Tre Mercer. Today, September 1st, 2024, we're going to listen to an interview we did on July 26th with the president of the sea Shepherd Conservation Society in France, Lamia Esme Lally. And this is about the July 21st arrest in Greenland of Captain Paul Watson, founder of the sea Shepherd Conservation Society, co-founder of Greenpeace and star of Whale Wars.

00;02;08;15 - 00;02;36;15
Unknown
Watson was arrested on an international arrest warrant from Japan, and is facing charges related to a 2010 confrontation with Japanese whaling ships. This legendary ocean activist and crew were on the John Paul Dejoria, and it was docked to refuel in Newark, the capital of Greenland, an autonomous Danish territory. Japan has accused Watson of causing damage to one of its whaling ships.

00;02;36;18 - 00;03;06;12
Unknown
In the Antarctic two years earlier and causing injury, the Dejoria in July was on its way to intercept a new Japanese whaling factory vessel in the North Pacific when he was arrested. Later, on August 15th, a Greenland court ruled that the 73 year old Canadian American citizen must continue to be detained until September 5th in order to ensure his presence.

00;03;06;14 - 00;03;38;25
Unknown
In connection with the decision on the issue of extradition to Japan, and if extradited, Captain Watson could face life behind bars there in Japan. Captain Watson has appealed the court's decision. Just prior to that August 5th court decision again. We spoke with Lamia Smalley again. She's the president of the sea Shepherd Conservation Society in France. And at that time she was in Greenland visiting Captain Watson in jail.

00;03;38;27 - 00;04;02;04
Unknown
Resilient Earth Radio was able to get this interview through the San Francisco office of the Captain Paul Watson Foundation, which we had met in April at the International Ocean Film Festival in San Francisco. Here is that July 26th interview with Lama. Symbolic president of sea Shepherd France.

00;04;02;07 - 00;04;22;01
Unknown
Welcome, Lamia. We're so glad you can make it today. We are live here on public radio in Northern California. Good morning or good afternoon, wherever you are. Good afternoon. Actually, it's, it's 3 p.m. here in Greenland, in New York, in the capital. So I'm, I'm very happy to be here and to give you an update on the situation for O.

00;04;22;03 - 00;04;52;26
Unknown
Watson, whom I've seen yesterday. Finally, why don't you first give our audience an overview of what this sea Shepherd is and what the situation actually is with Captain Paul. So sea Shepherd is, is an ocean defense? Movements organization that was set up by Paul Watson in 1977. I have to say that the US entity, sea Shepherd Conservation Society in the US, Paul Watson, has resigned from that entity because of the change, of course.

00;04;52;27 - 00;05;18;16
Unknown
So it's really important that that's very clear for for people in France. We are still in the right direction. And the original DNA that Paul was in set up the sea Shepherd, the original, movement and the original philosophy. So that's, that's important. It can make it a bit confusing for the general public also, because different organization with the same name but a different philosophy.

00;05;18;21 - 00;05;44;28
Unknown
And those who turn their back on Paul and those who stayed loyal to the original, thinking so it's. Yeah, it's a bit confusing. It has been a hard time for us, but that's life. The reason why Paul has been arrested, on the July 21st, is because he was heading to the North Pacific to block the Kang Maru, which is the biggest whaling factory ships that have ever been, built by Japan.

00;05;45;00 - 00;06;09;02
Unknown
That ship is currently killing whales and holding. Paul wanted to stop them. He didn't make a secret out of it. I mean, he did say that he was heading to stop the Maru, and, he stopped in Greenland because he needed to refuel his ship. Unfortunately, we didn't know about it, but Japan had issued a specific warrant against Paul.

00;06;09;04 - 00;06;31;29
Unknown
A warrant that was targeting a Denmark specifically. I mean, it was something that has been planned. So this is, as we recently found out, it's an even different warrant than the the one on the right notice that has been put up in 2012. This is something new. This is this is a new, new for us to. Yeah.

00;06;31;29 - 00;06;59;17
Unknown
We just we just got the the information. So this is like something that has been arranged between Japan and Denmark. It's not random choice. Paul and Sea Shepherd have been opposing the green, the drop, which is a massive dolphin killing in the violence that depends on Denmark and Denmark has been, using their military vessels to stop us from intervening against the green, the drop.

00;06;59;19 - 00;07;25;01
Unknown
So we have been exposing Denmark complicity on the killing of dolphins. And this have been going on for decades. So it's not a random, thing. Paul was in France for the past year. He actually lives in France now with his family. He had no issue entering France and leaving France. He also flew to Ireland without any problem.

00;07;25;01 - 00;07;52;15
Unknown
There was no warrant there. But yes, when he stepped foot in Greenland, meaning Denmark, he got arrested. Can you explain how the intervention works? How? How does he intervene with whaling vessels? How does the sea Shepherd intervene? What? We try to do always, is to target the, factory ship. Because if you can paralyze the activities of the factory ship, then you paralyze the whole whaling fleets.

00;07;52;17 - 00;08;19;27
Unknown
Basically, you have a factory ship and you have harpoons that go harpoon the whales. Bring them on the factory ship, they pull the whale on the deck of the factory ship. They cut it in pieces and they freeze it. Right. But if you stop that operation of getting the whales in the factory ship, then it stops everything because they have to solve the issue before harpooning more whales.

00;08;19;29 - 00;08;56;18
Unknown
Because once the whale is killed, they have up to 2430 six hours maximum before they freeze it. Otherwise the meat goes bad. So the factory ship has always been our main targets, and that's how we've been playing it in Antarctica for many years. Is anyone ever harmed in these activities? Has anyone ever been harmed? Actually, we had one activist on our side that got his, eyebrow cut open by a high pressure water cannon from a Japanese whaling vessel, but, we never injured anyone.

00;08;56;20 - 00;09;20;25
Unknown
That's a good point to bring out, to make sure that people understand that no one has ever been injured by the activities taken to disrupt these whaling vessels. And why is it so important to protect whales and dolphins? Because there's a value there. There's a value that they have. When you see how people are amazed how they feel.

00;09;20;25 - 00;09;46;09
Unknown
So, astonished when they see whales in the ocean, you can see that there is something magical there that touches your soul and your heart. That's one thing I think that if we are not able to spare species that are so charismatic as whales, it's a lost cause to preserve any other species in the ocean. And as Paul has been saying for decades, if the oceans die, we die, right?

00;09;46;11 - 00;10;19;25
Unknown
So preserving whales is like basically, our line in the sand and on and other aspects more like biological, like an experimental aspect. Whales are like the gardeners of the ocean, thanks to the whales, that there is plankton because they're in their poop, in wet poop. They are old. And nutrients for the fetal plankton. Right? And because we have been unfortunately wiping out whales for so many years, the fetal plankton population has dropped down by 40%.

00;10;19;27 - 00;10;47;24
Unknown
And we often think of forests as the main climate change regulator. But actually, the ocean is even a bigger regulator than forest, the phytoplankton. I mean, we cannot survive on this planet without phytoplankton. And there can be no phytoplankton in the ocean without whales. So basically we are 100% dependent on it. Again, every second breath we take comes from the phytoplankton.

00;10;47;26 - 00;11;20;11
Unknown
And again, they are supporting that phytoplankton. I like the word regulator because we have been so motivated by the International Monetary Fund's director who took a sabbatical, Ralph Shami, who's been counseling nations on the value of whales and showing how that value is equal to so many trees over their lifetime. They equal to about 2000 trees. The value is so important to our planet.

00;11;20;13 - 00;12;13;15
Unknown
But let's get now back to the captain Paul Watson Foundation, to Captain Paul Watson himself. You're there in Greenland. You flew there. Give us an update. Well, right now the judge, from Greenland, said that, she she has until August 15th to decide on whether Denmark would go ahead with an extradition to Japan or not. So we are working on getting the maximum pressure on Denmark under the Danish prime minister and the Danish Minister of Justice, in order for them to understand that this is a totally political warrant, that Japan is actually violating the global moratorium on waiting like it has been violating the Antarctica Whale Sanctuary for many years, and that Denmark basically

00;12;13;15 - 00;12;45;02
Unknown
is going to provoke a public outcry if they send us into Japan. Right. And something has to be really clear is that if all goes to Japan, he will never get out of there. He's 73 already, and if he faces a 15 year sentence, say, that's that's a life sentence. That's correct. But also many people don't know. But the Japanese prison system is one of the worst in the world.

00;12;45;04 - 00;13;13;00
Unknown
Japan has been condemned by the human rights European Court of Justice, by United Nations, by Human Rights Watch, by Amnesty International on the way they treat their prisoners, and especially Western activists. And that was a surprise to me personally. I don't know about you, but that was a surprise that Japan, of all countries, had an archaic system in the way that they treated their people in their jail system.

00;13;13;02 - 00;13;36;16
Unknown
It's not very known, because when you think of Japan, you think of the high at right. Once we, you know, which is true. But when it comes to the prisoners treatment, it's median age aside from his age, which is not helping, obviously, but he has no chance if he goes to each other. And Denmark is a European Union country, right.

00;13;36;19 - 00;14;05;21
Unknown
And we do have, regulations in, in European Union with the human rights and democratic conditions, and Japan doesn't fit that doesn't meet the regulation that European regulations. So that alone, that fact alone should stop Denmark from extraditing Paul to Japan. And how is he doing? Well, you know, he's doing fine. I mean, he's he's doing great.

00;14;05;24 - 00;14;33;00
Unknown
I, I've never simple, desperate, hopeless. I mean, he has a very strong mind, but I know that he was super happy to to hear about all the support that he's got. The French president, Emmanuel Macron, officially and and publicly stood up for him. He is in touch with the Danish and the Japanese authorities. We've launched a petition in France for him.

00;14;33;00 - 00;14;55;23
Unknown
And we are 650,000 signatures in eight days. And we are going to reach the million. So he's got a lot of supports in France, but we also need to get other countries on board. So that's what the president of France is also trying to do is, is to get other EU countries. But we also need the US, of course.

00;14;55;25 - 00;15;18;26
Unknown
I mean, everyone has to stand up for him and especially Paul is a US citizen, right? So I think it's very, very important that US politics and the US citizens also stand up for him. Yes, we we're looking at the support that Paul has been getting. Captain Paul and Jane Goodall came out with a statement as well in support of him on Friday.

00;15;18;29 - 00;15;54;18
Unknown
The statement from Jane Goodall said that she and members of the Jane Goodall Institute's Cetacean and Ethics committees urgently call for the Danish government to immediately release Captain Paul Watson and deny requests from the Japanese government to extradite him. They said that they unequivocally condemn the practice of whaling, and are strongly opposed to arresting individuals who are demonstrating their compassion and concern for the well-being, conservation and protection of cetaceans and individuals of those species.

00;15;54;20 - 00;16;27;28
Unknown
Whales and other cetaceans are long lived sentient beings. They have complex social bonds and are extremely intelligent. Whaling, whether for commercial or alleged scientific purposes, is cruel and unethical. Each and every whale matters as an individual and should be respected accordingly. That's from Doctor Jane Goodall and the Jane Goodall Institute's Cetacean and Ethics Committee. And you're listening to KDKA in, well, all 88.3 of.

00;16;28;05 - 00;16;55;02
Unknown
We're on the northern California coast of Mendocino and Sonoma counties here in the United States. We have with us from Greenland, the president of the France office for the sea Shepherd Conservation Society and their distinct, different sea Shepherd conservation societies around the planet. There's one here in the U.S. there's a global one, but they're the U.S., and the global one is distinctly different from the other ones.

00;16;55;02 - 00;17;19;06
Unknown
As this president, her name is Lamia. Awesome. Lolly, tell me if I even got that right. Lomu. Yeah, actually, not too bad. Yeah. Really? Yeah, I tried so. Well, tell us how you got involved with the sea Shepherd France and how you became president there? I've met Paul when he was visiting, Paris in 2005. So I've heard his speech.

00;17;19;06 - 00;17;40;01
Unknown
I mean, he wasn't known in France at the time. There was no sea Shepherd in France who were like 30 people in that little room, you know, and and he started talking about his vision of the ocean of activism, of the point of not being a bear witness, to take also action and make a difference, to stand up.

00;17;40;03 - 00;18;16;08
Unknown
And, I really liked that. I liked that combative state of mind. I liked that he didn't put human beings on top of the whole living world, but as a part of its as like promoting harmony between species. I mean, this there's an interdependence, right? Exactly. It's interdependence. It's, it's respect. It's inspiration. It's, it has to do with survival, but not only of our bodies, not only the biological survival, it's also about the survival of our souls.

00;18;16;10 - 00;18;42;12
Unknown
Because our species is completely lost. We keep running after things that are escaping. We are like, we are trying to fill a gap, an inside gap. And I think this has a lot to do with the fact that we completely disconnected ourselves from the rest of the living world. We made our species an orphan by eating out and wiping out all the other species.

00;18;42;14 - 00;19;09;07
Unknown
And, this is our tragedy and the tragedy of this planet and and to to get involved in restoring harmony with the rest of the living world is, in my eyes, the, the most important thing of all, because it has the same roots as all the the atrocities that we can do also among ourselves in our in our species.

00;19;09;09 - 00;19;29;29
Unknown
You know, it's about killing the weakest, all the ones that's, are not strong enough to, to stand up for themselves. So there's a lot more. I, I loved what he said. I loved what he was doing. And I went to him at the end of the talk, and I did it. Okay. I want to get involved with you.

00;19;30;01 - 00;19;54;11
Unknown
How do I do it? And he said, well, I have one question for you. Are you ready to risk your life for. Well, and at that time I had never seen a will, you know, and I was like in Paris, you know, far from where the Olympics are now. Yeah. But to me the answer somehow was obvious. And I said, yes, of course.

00;19;54;11 - 00;20;12;22
Unknown
And I joined a few months later for first camp in Galapagos and then in Antarctica. In Antarctica, we actually had to make a choice, a decision where we had to risk our life. And for me, it was a turning point because it was a confirmation of what I thought when I was in Paris. But it's one thing to say, yeah, I'm ready to risk my life.

00;20;12;22 - 00;20;32;26
Unknown
And you're sitting in Paris, you know? But when you are actually being confronted to it, it becomes a reality. How do you react? You know, and for me, it was a basement of the basis of the rest of my activism because even though I was scared because we were like, okay, that's it, we are going to sink in two minutes because it's it's coming to us, it's going to ram us.

00;20;33;03 - 00;20;54;19
Unknown
There is a storm around that's it. So the thought crosses your mind. That's you're not going to see your family ever again. It's the end. I mean, the story ends here for you. So how do you react to that? And, I mean, I was scared, we were all scared, but I didn't want to be anywhere else in the world.

00;20;54;21 - 00;21;27;16
Unknown
It's just felt so right, so right, so yeah, it seemed to me that I was I was doing the right thing. I was on my path and I've been with poles since then. So it was 2025. So it's 19 years now. We watched a number of videos on YouTube with, Captain Paul Watson and one of the quotes that he had said to someone is that, you know, these whales and other beings can live without us, but we can't live without them.

00;21;27;19 - 00;21;52;29
Unknown
We'll be right back, right after this special message. If you like our podcast, please consider contributing to our Patreon account. Planet Centric Media is the producer and they are a 501 C3 nonprofit, which makes your contribution tax deductible. Welcome back to Resilient Earth Radio. I have with me Scott and Tre Mercer of the Mindanao Whale and Seals study.

00;21;53;00 - 00;22;15;18
Unknown
My name is Leanne Lindsay. I'm a filmmaker and I'm a GM of the station Kaga in Molalla. And I'd like to hear from both of you some of your thoughts and questions that you have for Lamia. So just appalled at the fact that whaling takes place anywhere on this planet. To me, that is wrong on so many levels.

00;22;15;20 - 00;22;40;27
Unknown
Knowing what we know about the value of whales, it just in keeping the climate in check what they do for their overall health of the ocean and for all living things, whether it be on the ocean or on land. That's one, you know, importance of whales and just the other that they're another living thing that we should respect and not make it not go out and kill them.

00;22;40;28 - 00;23;14;21
Unknown
That is just so disturbing. I really do respect what you're doing and what Captain Watson is doing to try to prevent this horrific, activity from taking place. And Scott, I've got several questions to ask you. Your discussion has been so engrossing. I've forgotten them because each statement has been so captivating. But what you've been saying. I do remember when Paul broke away from Greenpeace that he and Robert Hunter and others had started.

00;23;14;27 - 00;23;35;13
Unknown
I mean, I know why they broke free, and there was a lot of respect for that in the environmental community. And Scott and Terry have been studying whales and doing even he had whale watching tours many, many years ago on the East Coast that would support his study. And learning about the whale population and seals. Yeah. That's right.

00;23;35;13 - 00;23;55;05
Unknown
And I saw a photo the other day when I was doing some research for this discussion with you of a bears, a beached whale that had been killed in the process. I guess you call it on the, a Japanese ship. We know almost nothing about beaked whales. The thought that they're killing one and probably claiming that it's for research purposes is ridiculous.

00;23;55;11 - 00;24;19;18
Unknown
A beached whale our species had hardly ever seen begin with. And we know so very, very little about these deep diving species. Yeah, it must have been almost luck that they even got one and then to have killed it. Well, we know so little about how they live their lives is a complete mystery. You know, that's the type of thing that people should understand, that it's not just another whale, not just a minke whale, a small whale.

00;24;19;20 - 00;24;47;16
Unknown
And I'm also wondering if in, Sea Shepherd's work, if they are running any of the arguments that, well, we're doing this for research to further the survival of the animals. Are you still running into that yourselves? No, of course not. There is no need today to kill any whale for research. And, you know, the the argument, the fake argument that Japan was using about research on winning in Antarctica.

00;24;47;18 - 00;25;16;05
Unknown
First of all, it got condemned in 2014 by the International Court of Justice in The Hague that stated that this was not, research or they were killing way more whales than they used to. And that was actually do needs to kill the whales. But the even the objective of that research was actually to prove that there were enough whales to resume commercial whaling.

00;25;16;07 - 00;25;43;24
Unknown
So, no, there is absolutely no justification whatsoever on this planet to kill any whale today. With its tradition, research. Nothing. I mean, what does drive some of the whaling? What are some of the needs that they are trying to fill and pursue? There is no need, really. I mean, some here in Greenland, for example, they they kill whales.

00;25;43;27 - 00;26;05;10
Unknown
They kill a few. I mean, it's not industrial scale. They have, I think, a quarter of a six humpback, which is from a conservation point of view, is not the worst thing, but but from an individual point of view, it's indefensible, because there is no need to do it any more. And they just stick to it because.

00;26;05;13 - 00;26;34;24
Unknown
Because they are used to. Because this is what their ancestors were doing. Because for them it's part of being, you know, it's you know, it's part of their identification. Self-identification. It's tradition. Tradition is what you have been used to do. And you just keep on doing it because you've always done it. So it's not a justification. Why don't you summarize for us where things stand right now and what people can do to help?

00;26;34;26 - 00;27;04;15
Unknown
People can write to their congressmen, to their politicians to, to demand that they, that they contact the Danish authority and, mainly the prime minister and the Minister of Justice of Denmark to demand that Paul Watson, gets released. They also petitions online to, to sign on with France websites and also on the Captain What's information website and to make as much noise as possible.

00;27;04;18 - 00;27;30;21
Unknown
I mean we need the issue to get out in the also in the mainstream media. Right now in Denmark, it has been very, very silence in mainstream media. So I'm going to Copenhagen in, one week to do a press conference there and to try to gather the public supports in, in Denmark. But the more pressure we're going to get on Denmark from the rest of the world, the better.

00;27;30;23 - 00;27;58;11
Unknown
And right now, France is like leading the pressure. But we really need also the US to jump in and to stand up for Paul. And this is a special segment we're doing for Resilient Earth Radio. I'm Liane Lindsay, this is Scott and Terry Mercer of the Minda, Noma, whale and Seals study. Please take action. Please do what you can to approach and write to the Danish government because we've got a couple of weeks.

00;27;58;11 - 00;28;22;24
Unknown
Isn't that right, Lamia? We have a sort of deadline on August 15th. But we don't know if it's going to be the final decision, but definitely it's going to be, one step is going to happen on the on August 15th. Yes. Okay, good. So August 15th, it could be that, the decision is made that he's extradited to Japan is what?

00;28;22;24 - 00;28;56;20
Unknown
That's what we're trying to prevent from happening because of the quality of the the jail system there that he faces possible life sentence. And this is a hero of the environment among the many commendations for his work, he received the Genesis Award of Lifetime Achievement. In 1998, he was named one of the top 20 Environmental Heroes of the 20th Century by Time magazine in 2000, and he was inducted into the U.S Animal Rights Hall of Fame right here in Washington, DC in 2002.

00;28;56;25 - 00;29;30;13
Unknown
He was also awarded the Amazon Peace Prize by the President of Ecuador in 2007, and in 2012, Captain Watson became only the second person, after Captain Jacques Cousteau, to be awarded the Jules Verne Award, dedicated to environmentalists and adventurers. So this is a hero for the environment, and he's also a star of Whale Wars that yeah, aside from all these awards, because of him, 5000 whales and their offspring are living today and swimming in the ocean.

00;29;30;13 - 00;29;55;29
Unknown
Free. Excellent. That is that is worth it right there. 5000 whales. All right. Well, we thank you so much for joining us from Greenland today, where you've been visiting with Captain Paul Watson, this Islamiah and Lolly, president of the sea Shepherd Conservation Society in France, in Paris. Thank you for all that you do, Lamia. Thank you so much for your support.

00;29;56;00 - 00;30;47;17
Unknown
Thank you, thank you. Take care. Bye. This is a conversation that we had with Lamia Asim Lawley, the president of sea Shepherd France. She is a French Moroccan sea shepherd veteran and she's been its president since 2008. She holds a master's degree in environmental sciences and specializes in biodiversity conservation. In response to the arrest of Captain Paul Watson, Doctor Goodall, and members of the Jane Goodall Institute's Cetacean and Ethics Committees unequivocally condemn the practice of whaling and are strongly opposed to arresting individuals, demonstrating their compassion and concern for the well being, conservation and protection of cetaceans and individuals of those species.

00;30;47;19 - 00;31;20;01
Unknown
Whales and other cetaceans are long lived. Cynthia beings. They have complex social bonds and are extremely intelligent. Whaling, whether for commercial or alleged scientific purposes, is cruel and unethical. Each and every whale matters as individual and should be respected accordingly. Captain Watson is simply taking action to try to prevent the inhumane practice of killing whales, which most countries have banned decades ago.

00;31;20;03 - 00;31;48;00
Unknown
So in doing, he is expressing the anger of thousands of people in many countries who absolutely support his moral courage and not only speaking out on behalf of the whales, but taking action.

00;31;48;02 - 00;32;25;20
Unknown
And giving thanks for listening to Resilient Earth Radio, where we talk about critical issues facing our planet and the positive actions people are taking. I'm Leann Lindsey, producer and host, along with my co-producers and co-hosts, Scott and Terry Mercer of the Minda Nama Whale and Seals study. Joining us today was Lamia, a Somali president, sea Shepherd France, produced in association with planet centric Media, Storm Studios and KGO 88.3 FM, a public radio station on the Northern California coast.

00;32;25;22 - 00;32;33;10
Unknown
You can find us on Facebook and Instagram and wherever you get your podcasts.

00;32;33;12 - 00;32;52;07
Unknown
The music for this show is castles by the sea, from international composer Eric Allman of the Sea Ranch in Sonoma County, California.

00;32;52;10 - 00;33;20;11
Unknown
And now I'm going to play for you a special episode from Rising Tide, from our friends at the Blue Frontier Foundation. David Berg, a long time journalist who talks about this arrest of Paul Watson and his interview with him last year. That's coming up next. Often salty ocean off where the waves are free. Sparkling water rises and crashes to the sea out amongst the breakers.

00;33;20;11 - 00;33;54;00
Unknown
You'll have no need to fear. It's true. It's the blue frontier. On Sunday, July 21st, while traveling to Greenland, Paul Watson, the longtime ocean activist, was taken into custody on a warrant issued by Japan. Japan claims he's wanted for damaging one of its commercial whalers. For the millions of people have watched Whale Wars on Animal Planet, you know that watch and long fought and helped end Japanese whaling while for Antarctica, he was on his way to try and intercept a new Japanese whaling vessel in the North Pacific.

00;33;54;05 - 00;34;18;27
Unknown
When he was arrested. That's why we're replaying our 2023 interview with Paul Watson, so you can better understand his perspective in fighting for whales against pirate fishing and for our living seas. And now our conversation with Paul Watson. This is David Hull Varg of Blue Frontier and from the road, the ever migratory Vickie Nichols Goldstein of the Inland Ocean Coalition.

00;34;18;29 - 00;34;50;29
Unknown
And hello, everyone and welcome. And today, we're pleased to speak with one of our Blue planet's leading ocean warriors, Captain Paul Watson, founder of the sea Shepherd Conservation Society. Widely known for news coverage, the Whale Wars TV series, and documentaries like Chasing Thunder and Watson. With his propensity to confront and occasionally sink, disable or arrest illegal whalers, our fishing vessels and others who threatened marine life has become both a figure of controversy and uncompromising environmental direct action to enforce the law.

00;34;51;02 - 00;35;09;28
Unknown
His most recent controversy involves his decision to leave the sea Shepherd society. He founded and established both a new foundation and also a new religion. We'll get into all that. But Paul, first, let's start with your ocean origin story. When in your youth, did you first feel a bond to the ocean and all its finned and flipper citizens?

00;35;10;00 - 00;35;32;00
Unknown
I was raised in an eastern Canadian, fishing village, and, when I was ten years old, I actually spent the entire summer swimming with a family of beavers and, that was great fun. And, the next summer when I went back, they were gone. And that made me quite angry. And so that winter, when I was 11, I began to walk the trap lines and free the animals and destroy the traps.

00;35;32;00 - 00;35;58;10
Unknown
So I've been pretty much doing the same thing for the last 60 years. You've definitely been busy as a beaver. You went out to Vancouver and, fast for it's 1969, you joined a, protest against one of our country's dumber ideas, which was to set off an atomic, weapon blast in the Aleutian Islands. I went to a demonstration of the Canadian U.S. border, and, it was organized by the Sierra Club and by the Quakers.

00;35;58;12 - 00;36;24;11
Unknown
And it was to oppose nuclear testing. And Jack Island, I went there were completely different reason, though, because America was a wildlife reserve and you couldn't take a rifle on to the island. But here you are, blowing a five megaton bomb up underneath of it. And that had killed a number of sea otters and sea lions. And, at that, demonstration led to a getting together and forming a group called the Don't Make a wave committee because the tsunami from 64 earthquake in, Alaska was still fresh in people's minds.

00;36;24;14 - 00;36;42;25
Unknown
And, so we sent this group called the Don't Make a Wave committee. And, one of the early meetings, somebody left a meeting, a meeting for peace sign, and, and Bill Darnell said, hey, make it a Greenpeace. And Bob Hunter said, great name for the boat. So we named the boat the, that we took up to an island to protest the bill, and we named it the Greenpeace.

00;36;42;25 - 00;37;03;10
Unknown
And then in 72 changed the name to the Greenpeace Foundation. Okay. And then later in the 70s, you left or actually were expelled from Greenpeace over what constituted nonviolent direct action. And quickly. Well, go ahead. You wanted to say. Well, I was, the campaign leader for the Campaign to Protect Seals off the east coast of, Newfoundland.

00;37;03;13 - 00;37;19;13
Unknown
And, as I was approaching, the sealer is about to strike a seal, baby seal with a club. And I, reached up and grabbed the club, pulled it out of his hand, threw it in the water, and, Greenpeace said that I had stolen the man's property and destroyed his property. And that was an act of violence.

00;37;19;15 - 00;37;45;29
Unknown
And I said to them, well, if I had to do the same thing over again, I would do the same thing over again. I think, to me, nonviolence is saving lives, not, protecting property. Yeah. And that's that's a very disarming form of action. So you left Greenpeace and very quickly formed sea Shepherd. You started with one boat, and I'd like to hear about that, but really about how it grew into, essentially a large maritime fleet that has operated on all the world's oceans.

00;37;46;01 - 00;38;04;22
Unknown
I set up sea Shepherd with a specific strategy, and that what I called aggressive nonviolence. We're not going to injure anybody. We're not going to hurt anybody, but we're going to be aggressively intervene. And we have no problems with destroying property, which is being used to take life. And, I didn't have any money. I didn't have a boat.

00;38;04;22 - 00;38;24;17
Unknown
But, I actually got supported by two very conservative organizations, Cleveland Avery's Fund for animals and, the Royal SPCA in Britain. So they were they funded the first vessel for me. We went against the seal hunting Canada. And then later I took that vessel and hunted down the pirate whalers. Sierra rammed it and put it out. Ended his career, actually in Portugal.

00;38;24;19 - 00;38;44;06
Unknown
And that was your first vessel which survived your first ramming. Just tell me a little how it grew in terms of becoming a at sea operational fleet, more than just an organization on paper. Well, I lost that ship during that confrontation with the Sierra, but we ended up by shutting down all the pirate whaling operations in the Atlantic.

00;38;44;08 - 00;39;03;27
Unknown
But I sold the movie rights to Warner Brothers, and that enabled me to buy the second ship. And, from there it just grew. And, it was actually only around 2006 that are really grew because I had approached all these, TV networks and said, look, the biggest show on discovery right now is about a bunch of men going to a cold, remote area of the planet to catch crabs.

00;39;03;27 - 00;39;21;16
Unknown
And I can give you men and women going to a colder, more remote, more hostile environment to save whales. And it has to be more compelling and catch crabs every week. And Animal Planet went forward and we did, Seven Seasons, which is it was their top show. And that that brought a, a terrific amount of support to, to us because of that.

00;39;21;19 - 00;39;43;27
Unknown
And so you had seven seasons with Whale Wars. Why was there not an eight? Well, very simple reason for that. We won the Japanese whaling fleets no longer in the Southern Ocean whale, sanctuary. And, so it's fully protected now, it we have to keep in mind that was called the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. So what are you killing whales for in a sanctuary?

00;39;43;29 - 00;40;04;19
Unknown
And, finally, the International Court of Justice ruled that it was illegal, and they stopped for one year. They started again. But we kept the pressure on, and finally they left for good. And as of 2019, there's no whaling in international waters anywhere on the planet. That's a beautiful development. No pelagic whaling. All whaling today is restricted to the territorial waters of Norway.

00;40;04;19 - 00;40;31;00
Unknown
One Japan to Iceland three and Denmark four. Those are the only real whaling nations. And so since I started in, say, 1974 to protect whales, I would say that 95% of the world's whaling operations have been shut down. So it's been, it's been a very successful movement, not just for sea Shepherd, but all of the groups that were that were opposing whaling worldwide, putting pressure on the International Whaling Commission or directly confronting them or boycotts.

00;40;31;00 - 00;40;52;23
Unknown
All those are all working together. I've always said that the strength of an ecosystem is in diversity. Therefore the strength of a movement is in diversity. So all of those approaches contributed to that wonderful success story and taking on a lot of corporate fishing interests and whalers. You've been indicted in five nations. You've kind of confronted the legal systems of various nation states.

00;40;52;23 - 00;41;21;19
Unknown
You, you managed to avoid ever being convicted, but it certainly put you in a tough position. Did you expect and take on whalers and other people breaking the law that you'd end up in international, fugitive governments tend to support those, companies within their jurisdiction, even if they're breaking the law. For example, Spain has a grossly illegal fishing fleet, but the judges in Spain do nothing because they say it's outside of our jurisdiction.

00;41;21;22 - 00;41;41;09
Unknown
We've always expected that anything we do in the field may end up in court, and we fight them in court. And we've won on every case, on every occasion we've won in the courts. I mean, Canada spent $3 million coin arresting me for chasing the Spanish, trawling fleets off of the Grand Banks of Newfoundland. Took me into court charged with three counts of mischief.

00;41;41;11 - 00;42;02;07
Unknown
Is facing two times life plus ten. And, they lost. And the reason they lost was my defense was the United Nations World Charter for nature, which allows for individuals to intervene against illegal activities and uphold, international conservation law. The funny thing at the trial, though, is they brought in a law professor from the University of Toronto to argue that the UN charter for nature didn't apply to Canada.

00;42;02;09 - 00;42;21;07
Unknown
And she and, the judge says, well, do Canada sign this? And she said, yeah, well, Canada signs a lot of things. So the the judge said to the jury, you have to take into account. And in fact, it was rather hilarious. On on the trial, my lawyer opened up the trial by saying, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we're not going to deny that we did what we're charged with.

00;42;21;12 - 00;42;41;20
Unknown
We're going to admit that we did what we're charged with. We're proud to have done it, and we intend to do it again. And we want I wrote a book on the Coast Guard, Rescue Warriors. I was surprised watching one of your films. There's 110ft, Coast Guard cutter retired and now part of the sea Shepherd fleet. It seems over time that I know legitimacy was not what you were seeking.

00;42;41;20 - 00;43;08;01
Unknown
You were seeking to save the world's marine wildlife. But it seems that over time, sea Shepherd did become more of an enforcement agency, that working with other coast guards and national law enforcement in various parts of the world, we're going to talk about how that evolution took place. That first began in 1999 when I approached the Galapagos, National Park, and we offered to help protect the marine reserve there.

00;43;08;01 - 00;43;32;29
Unknown
So I brought a 95ft former U.S. Coast Guard vessel, there to as a full time patrol vessel. And the Ecuadorian government was very supportive. I even got the Amazon Peace Prize for that, that campaign. And it was a good campaign and that sort of evolved into working with other governments. But I'm not sure that's always a good thing because, right now we're working with, numerous, governments in Africa, and we have worked with them in Mexico and also in Latin America.

00;43;33;05 - 00;43;59;01
Unknown
The problem is, and this is what we're experiencing now, is that now those governments get to call the shots and they they get that they have to approve our statements. They have to approve what we do. We have to approve what even the uniforms that we were, the flag that we and and so that really bothers me. That's one of the reasons that I've, had a problem recently with sea Shepherd is that we should not allow governments or corporations to dictate who we are and what we are.

00;43;59;03 - 00;44;22;22
Unknown
Sea Shepherd strength has always been that we're confrontational and we're controversial, and it's all about direct action. And, these other campaigns working with these governments is fine if they're dealt with as campaigns, but they should not be what we're all about. And, Paul, you have had incredible successes with, sea Shepherd Conservation Society and Global Sea Shepherd.

00;44;22;22 - 00;44;45;25
Unknown
You've been you created the logo, you were very upfront about your goals, and you've gone through quite a different, relationship with them. And I, we would love to hear more about what happened. I mean, we've gotten your newsletters, we've gotten your emails. But walk us through to really tell us what happened and how you feel about that.

00;44;45;27 - 00;45;08;25
Unknown
Well, I was slowly marginalized, but I started in 2019 when the they asked me to step up the board of directors because they couldn't get directors insurance. They said because of my reputation, my past history. But I was assured that I would still be able to participate. So I agreed to that. I stepped off the board and suddenly I found very quickly that my advice wasn't going to be respected.

00;45;08;28 - 00;45;31;18
Unknown
But then again, they hired, Alex Cornelissen and Peter Hammerstone to run as CEO and campaign director. And I felt really good with that because I've worked with them for 20 years and that. But then they resigned in April and, they resigned because they were being micromanaged. So I had a board meeting in June of this year, and, this US board decided, well, we're not going to be controversial.

00;45;31;19 - 00;45;49;14
Unknown
We're not going to be confrontational. We're going to work with governments. We're going to be, well, more like Oceana, really, and focus on, science and things. And I said quite, clearly I said, I'm sorry, but I can't participate. I can't, I can't be part of that. And I was told, really? Well, you work procedure for it.

00;45;49;14 - 00;46;10;11
Unknown
You do what you're told. I said, no, I don't think so. You know, you're not going to pay me a lot of money to be an important figurehead to this organization. So that's why I resigned. Now, I was still a global board member, and that was fine. But now what happened? What we didn't know is that this board in the U.S. went around the world copyrighting, trademarking everything so that they controlled it.

00;46;10;11 - 00;46;26;28
Unknown
Then they go to the global board and said, well, we control you, we own you. They actually told me, I can't use my own logo, and I can't use the name that I created because they own it. So the global board then reacted out of fear, really? And, I receive an email saying you're dismissed from the global board.

00;46;27;01 - 00;46;46;18
Unknown
Well, there was no vote. And, I was a member of the board. I didn't get the vote. And let me guess, I'm leaving the presidency for France. She didn't get the vote. And, so I'm just suddenly dismissed. And, so that's the situation right now. So global now has made an arrangement or an agreement with the the US board basically to do what the U.S. board wants them to do.

00;46;46;25 - 00;47;03;02
Unknown
And that means that the US will now take credit for everything that's being done everywhere else in the world without having to put a penny into it, because they control the logo and everything. Well, we're going to fight it. But, the logo and the name are not important. It's the, the passion, the imagination, the courage of the individuals.

00;47;03;04 - 00;47;19;10
Unknown
And a great many of them are coming with me. And, we're going to continue to do the work that we've been doing. I set up the Captain Paul Watson Foundation. I named it that because, you know, it's going to be hard to take over, a group with my name in it. Although I have to say, doctor David Suzuki.

00;47;19;11 - 00;47;44;22
Unknown
The Suzuki Foundation fired Doctor David Suzuki and actually had a disclaimer saying that the, the opinions of Doctor David Suzuki are not necessarily a reflection of the Suzuki Foundation, but I think he's since got his organization back. But I think this does happen a lot where, founders, you know, from David Brower to so many other Rick Barry, are, they're taken over by the people who get involved with the accounting and the legal side of it.

00;47;44;22 - 00;48;03;17
Unknown
And next thing you know, they're in control. I'm not really deterred. In fact, I feel somewhat liberated to be away from all of that and also very motivated to, to carry on and, be even more controversial if I need be. But, I'm certainly going to continue to do what I've done for the last 45 years.

00;48;03;19 - 00;48;28;24
Unknown
How are you going to go forward? I don't know about your funding. You know, your funding has been really tied up with the other, with sea Shepherd. So what are your plans for moving forward? How are you going to garner the volunteers the boats? What is what are your plans? I have a lot of disillusioned former crew members who are coming to me, have a lot of, supporters who are not happy with what's going on, who are coming to me.

00;48;28;26 - 00;48;49;26
Unknown
Plus, I have the support of sea Shepherd, France, the United Kingdom, Brazil, New Zealand, Austria, and they're all, you know, working with me too. So, you know, I'm not starting with nothing this time. So, we've got a good support base to, to build on. Do you have access to boats? No, no, but we'll get new boats.

00;48;49;28 - 00;49;11;12
Unknown
Okay. Sea Shepherd us was scrapping the boats, and, we couldn't figure out why they sold to Brigitte Bardot. They scrapped the white holly, the scrap, the John Paul Dejoria, the scrap, the the Sharpie. They scrapped them at a loss. In fact, John Paul Dejoria, who sponsored the John Paul Dejoria and was maintaining it, wasn't even notified of the scrapping of the vessel.

00;49;11;15 - 00;49;32;07
Unknown
And, the same with the, the Sharpie. Chris Sharp was not notified. They just went ahead and did this Brigitte Bardot Foundation actually put two brand new engines in the Brigitte Bardot, and then they just sold the vessel, which is very, very disrespectful to the, to our support base. And they're not very happy about that. And I'm reasonably and of course, I understand why they're not well.

00;49;32;07 - 00;49;53;18
Unknown
And these ships have been, through a lot of good action. I mean, and seeing the documentary Chasing the Thunder, you mentioned Peter. I guess he was one of the captains on one of the two ships that chased a pirate vessel from Antarctica 10,000 miles across the planet until the pirate captain realized at this point, there was no port he could go into without being arrested.

00;49;53;18 - 00;50;16;22
Unknown
He scuttled that ship. That was a great campaign. And, sea Shepherd shut down all the, you know, toothfish poaching operations in the Southern Ocean. So it was, you know, something that Interpol and all the in Australia, New Zealand were, weren't able to accomplish. So we were always been we were always able to do things like that because we can operate outside of the restrictions that these governments impose upon themselves.

00;50;16;24 - 00;50;35;01
Unknown
And, when people say, how do you get away with that? Well, it's the Wild West. How do they get away with it? There's people out there doing illegal things. And, we're we're simply trying to stop them, you know? And when they do take us to court, for instance, I cut open a net off of, the coast of Libya of a Maltese, tuna fishing operation, bluefin tuna operation.

00;50;35;03 - 00;50;51;25
Unknown
And we released 800 bluefin tuna. They just took out of that net, like, resources. It was incredible. And, a year later, I found my ship arrested in Scotland because the Maltese had brought it to the courts in Britain, accused me of destroying their property and stealing their property. And, so we went to court and we won.

00;50;52;02 - 00;51;08;05
Unknown
But the lawyer for the, the Maltese company said, well, we'll just keep throwing money at sea Shepherd until we destroy them. So they took it to the court of, of appeals, and they won. And then we went to the Supreme Court and we won. And they had to pay us a million and a half dollars. So you have to take these fights all the way through.

00;51;08;07 - 00;51;27;08
Unknown
What are some of the, the first things that you want to do with your new foundation? There's a lot of things I want to concentrate on, illegal fishing, transhipment at sea, which is done illegally. Also, there's still whaling operations in the world that we want to oppose. We're very much involved with trying to stop the killing of, pilot whales in the Barrow Islands.

00;51;27;08 - 00;51;47;05
Unknown
I do want to get back to trying to protect dolphins in Japan. Something that sea Shepherd just washed their hands of, against my advice. But also, one of my big concerns is one that affects each and every one of us every day. And that is since since 1950, there's been a 40% diminishment in phytoplankton populations in the sea.

00;51;47;08 - 00;52;10;02
Unknown
And phytoplankton provides 70% of the of the air, oxygen in the air we breathe and also sequesters enormous amounts of, CO2. And if I do, plankton disappears from the ocean, we die. We do not live on this planet without phytoplankton. And that's a message we got to get across. And why is phytoplankton being diminished? Because they're diminishing the whales and the seals and the fishes who provide the nutrient base.

00;52;10;02 - 00;52;34;15
Unknown
They're basically farming the phytoplankton. Their fecal material contains, nitrogen, iron and magnesium and, you know, one blue whale every day, defecates three tons on the surface, which is eaten up by all that, phytoplankton. And, so this, I think, is probably one of the most serious, threats facing our survival and trying to get people aware that it's even a problem is actually a challenge.

00;52;34;18 - 00;52;50;22
Unknown
I mean, I got a call from a, reporter, Brit Hume from Fox News. He said, did you say that? Words. Peas and trees are more important than people. I said, yeah, I said that. How could you say something so outrageous? Well, because they're more important than we are because they can live here without us, but we can't live here without them.

00;52;50;25 - 00;53;13;16
Unknown
And he didn't really seem to understand the point. But that's the whole reason that I set up the church of bio centrism is to bring forth this idea of living in harmony with all other species. This is one of my questions, which is, I mean, even mosquitoes feed bats. I'm kind of curious. Everything's part of the fabric of life, but I'm not quite clear on what what role humans play in the ecosystem.

00;53;13;18 - 00;53;34;23
Unknown
Well, we have one very important thing that we can do, and I think we demonstrated it within the last couple of weeks. We can deflect an asteroid. And I think that would be our major contribution to this planet. If a particular asteroid was coming towards us, we may have the technological ability to save the planet itself, but practically, that's about the only thing that we can do.

00;53;34;25 - 00;53;55;03
Unknown
Well, I wanted to go back to your your new foundation and also your new religion and, and tell me more kind of on an organizational framework, how the two merge and then how this will be played out in, in our world. What does it look like? Well, of course, the distinction is not really a religion, it's a church.

00;53;55;03 - 00;54;13;23
Unknown
And by setting up a church, you actually gets tax benefits that you would never get as a nonprofit. I mean, so there's advantages there, but also it's an idea that people understand what a church is. And, it's a community, coming together to, address a problem or to understand or, or to help each other, whatever.

00;54;13;26 - 00;54;33;03
Unknown
So in that way, a legitimate church. But it's independent of what I want to do with, with the foundation, which is, which is to carry on doing the work that I've been doing for the last, 45 years, which is, aggressive nonviolence and direct intervention against illegal activities. Let's see. Well, you mentioned my old friend Dave Brower.

00;54;33;03 - 00;54;51;11
Unknown
And had Dave not been thrown out of, Sierra Club, we probably wouldn't have friends of the Earth or the League of Conservation Voters or Earth Island Institute. So you can always go forth as sort of Johnny Kelp seed. Well, David Brower once told me, said, you know, they kicked me out of Sierra Club and I set up friends of the Earth, and they kick me out of the friends of the Earth.

00;54;51;11 - 00;55;06;25
Unknown
And ten years will be kicking me out of Earth Island. But you died before that happened. Me? You know, he seemed to, expect that kind of thing to happen when I was born. There are 3 billion people on the planet. There's now close to 8 billion people. And I remember living on the shores of the Pacific, Quoddy Bay, part of the Atlantic.

00;55;06;28 - 00;55;36;23
Unknown
There was no plastic, there was no shortage of fish. Everything seemed to be very healthy. So what the problem is, is we have this incredible ability to adapt to diminishment as things become diminished, we just. We just accept it. We don't question it. If this is 1965, and I were to say, you know, in 40 years you're going to be buying water and plastic bottles and paying more for that water than the equivalent amount of gasoline, you would look at me like, nobody's going to do that, but we just quietly adapted to that diminishment.

00;55;36;26 - 00;55;56;23
Unknown
And this this is something that served us well, you know, 20,000 years ago when we had to adapt to diminishment. But right now it's a problem because people forget what it used to be like. And, you know, I remember diving at Cocos Island and people saying, oh, this is incredible. Look at the life around here. And I said, but if you're here 20 years ago, you would see just how much it's been diminished.

00;55;56;23 - 00;56;21;06
Unknown
It looks good, but it was much better. And, so again, people are forgetting what the past was actually like. You know, when people say, well, how can we make a difference? All you need to do is find out what you're passionate about and then use your skills and abilities to, to move with that. And and if you if you understand that you can change the world, you know, because of Dian Fossey, we still have mountain gorillas in Rwanda.

00;56;21;06 - 00;56;36;07
Unknown
Because of David Wingate, we still have storm petrels. In, Bermuda. And, you know, one of my crew members, 18 years old, he came to me. This is 1979. He says, what are we going to do about the treatment of chimpanzees in, laboratories? And I said nothing. It's a sea Shepherd boat. What are you going to do about it?

00;56;36;10 - 00;56;54;12
Unknown
And he said, well, what can I do about it? So we'll use your imagination, come up with something. And and he did. He went into a lab in, Maryland, got a job, worked there for a year, got the documentation, exposed everything in the Washington Post, local TV stations and shut the place down. But then he founded his own organization, which is people for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

00;56;54;14 - 00;57;17;16
Unknown
And that's just this is what we try to do and have tried to do with sea shepherds encourage everybody who comes on as a crew member. If you're passionate about something, go for it and don't let anybody deter. I wanted to go back to what you were saying, Paul, about follow your passion, because, you know, David and I have both been following our passion with our ocean work, whether it's, you know, Inland Ocean and coalition with Frontiers Hill Days.

00;57;17;19 - 00;57;41;08
Unknown
We've had a great time to interact with you. And I think that's really a smart thing to say because so many young people say, well, what do I do? I'm only one person. And I think you I think we all agree just follow your passion, do something important and be an example to others. And we've talked a lot about environmental issues, about problems with whaling and dolphin decline.

00;57;41;10 - 00;58;01;26
Unknown
Give us some inspiration. We know about the problems. Just share some hopeful inspiration with us if you could. More success stories like on whaling. Well, I'd like to share one thing. One of the most valuable lessons I ever learned was. But way back in 1973, I volunteered to be a medic for the American Indian Movement during the occupation of Wounded Knee.

00;58;01;29 - 00;58;21;17
Unknown
And while I was there, we were surrounded by 3000 federal agents were shooting at us 20,000 rounds a night. We're being shot at. They killed two people. They wounded 46. And I went to, Russell Means and I said, we can't win this. The odds against us are overwhelming. I mean, it's impossible. What are we doing here? And he told me something that stayed with me for the rest of my life.

00;58;21;17 - 00;58;35;29
Unknown
And he said, well, we're not concerned about the odds against us, and we're not concerned about winning or losing. We're here because this is the right place to be, the right time to do it. The right thing to do. Don't worry about the future. Focus on the present. You can't control the future, but you can control the present.

00;58;36;05 - 00;58;51;04
Unknown
So what do you do in the present? Will define what that future will be. And so that's stayed with me ever since. And I try to convey that to other people. Don't get depressed about the future. Don't be pessimistic about the future because your power is right here. And now, and this is how you can make that change.

00;58;51;06 - 00;59;10;28
Unknown
I want to ask, what's your favorite of your children? But in the fleet, did you have a favorite vessel that you've, I did my flagship for the Steve Irwin, you know, the. So that was my favorite piece. Just describe the Steve Irwin. Well, I was a former, Scotty fisheries patrol vessels. So it had speed. It had.

00;59;11;00 - 00;59;35;16
Unknown
It was ice strengthened. It took us down to, Antarctica, to the Southern Ocean. And I was able to, blockade the, the Japanese factory ship, with it. But it was a beautiful ship. And so, yeah, I regret that. You know, we had to retire it, but, we named it, we named it the Steve Irwin because, Steve Irwin was going to join us that year, and, he died just before, that happened.

00;59;35;16 - 00;59;55;17
Unknown
So I asked to. I asked Terri Irwin if we could name it in his honor. And because we were in Australia, we thought, I thought that was get a lot of support. And it did. And, so that was my favorite ship. That was an excerpt from Blue Frontiers Rising Tide podcast. This is Resilient Earth Radio with Leanne, Lindsay and Scott and Terry Mercer.

00;59;55;17 - 01;00;08;23
Unknown
Thanks for listening.