Resilient Earth Radio

Plastic Pollution Worldwide - What Does One Person Do? & What's Happening on the Global Scale

Planet Centric Media Season 1 Episode 23

We talk with former UC Davis Design Professor, Ann Savageau, about her efforts to raise plastic pollution awareness with not only her design students, but with people worldwide through a special project called BAG - Bags Across the Globe. In the early 2000s, she created a design class at UC Davis called “Principles & Practices of Sustainability for Designers”. We also talk about the UN's international treaty on plastics, why it was not finalized, and what happens next. The UN international plastics treaty being negotiated aims to create a legally binding agreement to tackle global plastic pollution by addressing the entire life cycle of plastics, from production and design to waste management, to significantly reduce plastic waste and transition towards a circular economy through measures like phasing out unnecessary plastic products, improving recycling, and promoting sustainable alternatives. However, the 5th and final UN session to produce the first legally binding treaty ended in an impasse. Talks are to resume Summer 2025. 

We discuss California bag legislation that will go into effect January 1, 2026. See more info here. We bring up exciting new discoveries for alternatives to existing plastics, and we mention the OCTO Group (Open Communications for the Ocean) which helps connect ocean professionals to knowledge and networks. Over 100K ocean professionals in 120 countries use OCTO programs each year.


If you have questions, or would like to speak with the hosts, please send us a message here. Thanks for listening to Resilient Earth Radio & Podcast!

Planet Centric Media (non-profit)
Media for a Healthier Planet: Elevating The Interconnectedness of Life & Value of Natural Resources.

Mendonoma Whale & Seal Study
Founded by Scott & Tree Mercer to document the occurrence, diversity, & behavior of marine mammals.

Sea Storm Studios, Inc.
An audio/visual production company in the Sea Ranch, CA (US)

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

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Leigh Anne Lindsey, Producer Sea Storm Studios, The Sea Ranch, North Sonoma Coast

Scott & Tree Mercer, Co-hosts/Producers, Mendonoma Whale & Seal Study, Mendocino and Sonoma Coasts.

Planet Centric Media is Media for a Healthier Planet. Resilient Earth is a project of this 501 (c) (3) non-profit that is developing & producing media to elevate awareness of the interconnectedness of all living things.

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Welcome

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to the Resilient Earth podcast, where we
talk with speakers from the United States

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and around the world
about the critical issues

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facing our planet and the positive actions
people are taking

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from the tiniest of actions
to the grandest of gestures,

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so that we can continue to thrive

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and survive for generations to come.

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I'm Leigh Anne Lindsey, producer and host,
along with co-hosts and co-producers

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Scott and Tree (Theresa)
Mercer of Mendonoma Whale and Seal

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Study located on the South
Mendocino and North

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Sonoma coast.

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The music for this podcast
is by Eric Allaman,

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an international composer, pianist
and a writer living in The Sea Ranch.

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Discover more of his music,
animations, ballet,

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stage and film work at EricAllamancom.

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You can find Resilient Earth

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on Spotify, Apple and Amazon podcasts,

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iHeart radio, YouTube, SoundCloud
and wherever you find your podcasts.

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In this episode, we talk with

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a former UC Davis design professor
Ann Savageau

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about her efforts to raise awareness
about plastic pollution

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with not only her design students,

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but with people around the globe
through a special project

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she created called “BAG”

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an acronym for Bags Across the Globe.

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In the early 2000s, Professor Ann Savageau
created a class in design at UC Davis

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called Principles and Practices
of Sustainability for designers.

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Designers are the ones
who design the products we use every day,

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and if they don't take into consideration

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what their products will do to our Earth,

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our soil, our air, 
the oceans that we have to

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our animals, to us,
then that's a very damaging enterprise.

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So she wanted to raise awareness
about what is happening

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regarding sustainability around the globe.

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And in doing this

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research, she became more and more aware

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of what is happening
in terms of plastic pollution.

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And she would see it around her too,,,
plastic bags

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blowing around the campus
or in the fields outside the campus.

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She could see that plastic bags
had been disked

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into the soil and into the crops.

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Then she found out that the local landfill
nearby, Davis,

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which is near Sacramento,

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had to pay one person $34,000

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per year to pick up plastic bags
because they were blowing

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into the surrounding wetlands
where there were birds

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and other wildlife.

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We'll find out

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more about that during our conversation

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and after her installation

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BAG was completed, she wanted in 2007

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to collaborate with as many people
in other countries as she could.

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In 2008,
she got some help from undergraduate

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design majors who are in textiles
and fashion to figure out

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how they could transform the bags
into something useful.

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More along the lines of the way
bags were created thousands of years ago.

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Turns out

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there were interior design students
who had numerous

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design swatches for furniture
that would have been tossed

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had they not been turned
into a usable design like a bag.

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And the advertisers in the program
had all these excess plastic banners

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that they were able to cut up and sew
into durable, even waterproof bags,

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Ann then creates a contact list
of people around the world.

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And sends each, not just one of these,
but two

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with two postcards
introducing what they were doing

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so that that person could send
one set onto someone they knew.

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Thus, she doubled the impact.

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She ends up

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getting about two dozen bags in return

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from locations around the world
that had also come up

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with creative solutions
to the waste in plastic bag problem.

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She included these
in her final installation at the UC

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Davis Design
Museum during winter quarter of 2012.

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That was in January.

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13 years ago, the bags

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across the globe project. Or, project BAG.

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an installation composed of 1000 plastic bags.

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The amount of bags back
then that the average couple in California

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used each year.

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We'll talk about that.

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And the new law about plastic bags
in California.

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SB 1053, which goes into effect

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January 2026.

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That's coming up next on Resilient

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Earth Radio and podcast.

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I'm Leigh Anne Lindsey,

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and I have with me a great guest.

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This is a woman that I met
at the Gualala Arts Center,

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Art in the Redwoods (the annual art center fundraiser)
as she was one of the judges - Ann Savageau.

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And she had joined UC Design Department

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where she created a two course series

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on the ‘Principles and Practices
of Sustainability and Design.”

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Welcome Ann, (Ann begins) “Thank you.”

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(Host Leigh Anne continues.)
You have a beautiful background there, too.

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I see some of
your art design in your room.

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(Ann Savageau) Having lived in Iran.

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For two years as a child,

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I was always very interested

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in international art forms.

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(Host Leigh Anne) And that's why you ended up judging

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the artwork at Art in the Redwoods as well?

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Yes, that's
that was one of the reasons I love

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The Gualala Arts Center. I think it's
one of the best hidden gems on the coast.

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And I was happy to help out.

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(Leigh Anne) And I'm glad that I had a chance to talk
with you and the other judges, too.

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And right now
we want to discuss a very critical issue.

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But yet some of the positive actions
and what one person yourself

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has been able to do since 2007
when you started designing this course.

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So I'm going to turn the mic over to you
and let you explain

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to the audience exactly
some of the steps that you've taken.

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(Ann) Sure.

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I would be happy to.

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Yes. It was a.

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Two course series.

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On, as you said, the Principles
and Practices of Sustainability

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for designers, which is so important
because designers are the ones who

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design the products that we use every day.

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And if they don't take in to consideration
what their products will do.

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To our earth and our our soil,

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our air that we breathe and.

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The oceans that we have, then

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that's a very damaging enterprise.

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And I wanted to raise awareness
of what is going on

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in terms of sustainability
around the globe.

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So as I was doing

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background research, I was getting.

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More and more aware.

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Of what was happening
in terms of plastic pollution

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and I saw that all around me too.

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I would see plastic bags blowing

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across the campus during a windstorm.

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Or if I went for a walk.

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In the fields surrounding Davis, I would
see plastic bags peeking up from the soil.

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They were being disked into the crops.

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And then I learned that our local county
landfill, Yolo Landfill,

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had to pay one person $34,000

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a year to pick up plastic bags all day long

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because they were blowing out

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into the surrounding wetlands
where there was wildlife.

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And birds.

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And I even got a. Photograph of a bird.

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With a plastic bag around
its neck at one point.

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These things are happening worldwide.

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And then doing some internet.

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Research, I came across.

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The research of a veterinarian named Ulrech Vernery

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in Dubai, and Doctor Vernery

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is very concerned
about the deadly effects of plastic bags

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on not only domesticated animals,
but also wild animals like ibex.

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He learned that the camels

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and cattle and sheep, and even horses
probably eat the plastic bags

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because they have
the smell of food in them

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and the plastic bag does not come out
the other end.

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It congregates in their stomachs,
and because of the stomach acid

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and the digestion process,

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they form, these huge accretions, which.

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Are called polybezors.

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They're hard, 

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And they can be up to 60 pounds.

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And I contacted a Dr. Vernery
and told him about my project,

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and that I wanted to publicize
what was happening around the World

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to so many animals.

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And he kindly shipped one of these
polybezors to me from Dubai,

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which I used in my installation,
and I'm getting ahead of myself a little.

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I want to mention
also that the sacred cows in India,

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I learned, were dying by the thousands,
if not millions,

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and then our sea animals turtles mistake

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plastic bags for jellyfish
and they eat them and they die.

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Fish gobble up the microplastics

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and then it's found
in their internal organs.

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And then we eat them.

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And we wonder why we're feeling sick.

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(Leigh Anne) Microplastics is a huge issue.

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I'm on a plastics email list
that goes out to experts

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and educators around the globe,
and it's called the OCTO Group.

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Anybody can look them up online
and get on this list.

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It's really good because it does raise
awareness about what people are doing

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and they're all collaborating,
trying to figure things out too,

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and sharing ways
that, you know, one professor was asking,

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does anybody have a good way
of examining the contents

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of a (sea animal) stomach to detect for plastic?

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And you introduced me to Marcus Eriksen,

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whose group is 5 Gyres Institute.

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And they are all about studying
the plastic issue

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and coming up with solutions.

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So thank you for bringing him to us too.

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He has a home right here in Sea Ranch.

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(Ann) Yes. That's right.

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We go back, oh, several years
maybe even 20 years

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because he came to campus at least

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once, maybe twice, to visit my students.

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And after my project was finished,

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I actually gifted the polybezor

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to his organization so they could use it.

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He has a. Great outreach program.

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And I thought that people needed to see
what happened to plastic bags.

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(underlying music begins) So getting back to the

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“bags across the globe”
and the acronym is BAG,

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I decided that I wanted to do a global,

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collaborative project

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Involving people in as many countries
as I could.

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I began working up the concept,

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designing the concept really in 2007.

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And then in 2008,

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I was able to get help from our

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wonderful undergraduate design majors

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who are in textiles and fashion.

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And the first step was to identify

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any campus waste that we could make

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Durable.

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More permanent bags out of as
an alternative to the plastic bag.

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Because after all, human

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beings invented bags
thousands of years ago

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made from animal skins or,

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more likely, plant fibers.

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So why did we suddenly abandon

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this tradition that has served

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us so well for

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Millennia, to go to a plastic bag?

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It was a terrible mistake on our part.

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As human beings.

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(Host Leigh Anne) Agreed.

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(Guest Ann) We had wonderful sources on campus.

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First of all, the interior designers,

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which are separate

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from the design department,
the people who choose fabrics for things

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like curtains and furniture

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in the dormitories and the offices, etc.

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and they received thousands
of beautiful fabric

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swatches from different companies
that make these.

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They use these fabric swatches to choose

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what they want for the furniture
and the interiors.

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They were throwing them away,
and they are incredibly tough

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because they have to be. People
sit on them and use them.

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And they gave me wonderful swatches.

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And then the people who are in advertising
for the

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University.

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Have these wonderful vinyl banners.

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And we were able

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to take the banners and cut them up and
sew them into extremely durable and even

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waterproof bags.

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So out of all of this waste,

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which had been landfill,
came these beautiful bags.

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And the students were so generous
with their time.

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They did get academic credit for it.

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But you know,
they put their hearts and souls

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into the project with me, and together.

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We were able

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to make enough bags. And it ended up

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going to over 200 people

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in 64 different countries around the

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World.

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(Host Leigh Anne) 64 countries.

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You were able to reach out to?

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(Guest Ann) Yes. Well,

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my husband is a professor and scientist,

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so he has been in his long career
to many different countries and worked

00;16;38;10 - 00;16;43;02
with people, either graduate students
or colleagues around the world.

00;16;43;15 - 00;16;49;02
And I have colleagues and contacts around
the world as well as as well as friends.

00;16;49;13 - 00;16;50;01
And so, together,

00;16;50;01 - 00;16;55;10
I drew up a list of people,
and I started sending them

00;16;55;27 - 00;16;59;17
inquiries to see
if they would be willing to participate.

00;16;59;17 - 00;17;01;18
And many people were.

00;17;01;18 - 00;17;07;24
So beginning in 2008
and going on into 2009

00;17;07;24 - 00;17;13;01
and even 2010,
I started sending out bags.

00;17;13;01 - 00;17;17;03
Now I decided that
it would be far more effective

00;17;17;12 - 00;17;21;01
if I sent two bags and two of the

00;17;21;01 - 00;17;23;20
postcards to each individual.

00;17;23;20 - 00;17;28;05
Then I would double the impact.
And I was able to do that. 
(Very Smart, Leigh Anne interjects)

00;17;28;12 - 00;17;31;03
And so many people

00;17;31;03 - 00;17;34;14
had such beautiful responses.

00;17;34;14 - 00;17;35;08
In fact,

00;17;36;10 - 00;17;38;18
unbidden on my part,

00;17;38;18 - 00;17;42;23
they would send me bags
that they had made or,

00;17;42;23 - 00;17;43;08
that were available

00;17;43;08 - 00;17;49;02
in the local markets that were
made out of local recycled materials.

00;17;49;19 - 00;17;54;20
So I got probably 2000 bags
from around the world

00;17;54;20 - 00;17;57;19
that were very clever solutions

00;17;57;19 - 00;18;02;20
to both the waste problem
and the plastic bag problem,

00;18;02;28 - 00;18;06;18
and I included that
in my final installation,

00;18;07;01 - 00;18;11;00
which was at the UC Davis Design
Museum Winter.

00;18;11;00 - 00;18;14;00
Quarter of 2012 (January)

00;18;14;11 - 00;18;17;26
(Hiost Leigh Anne) And if you're just tuning in,
I wanted to let our listeners know

00;18;17;26 - 00;18;19;01
that you're listening

00;18;19;01 - 00;18;24;07
to the voice of Ann Savageau,
and you can watch us also on YouTube.

00;18;24;07 - 00;18;28;13
The show will remain there, so
you can go back and watch it at any time.

00;18;28;23 - 00;18;32;28
I'm Leigh Anne Lindsey,
and this is Resilient Earth Radio

00;18;33;05 - 00;18;38;10
and I met Ann through the Gualala Arts Center (South Mendocino County, Northern Calfiornia) when she was out here

00;18;38;17 - 00;18;42;12
as one of the judges
for the Art in the Redwoods (annual fundraiser)

00;18;42;20 - 00;18;46;27
back in September (2024),
and I really enjoyed meeting you there.

00;18;46;27 - 00;18;51;04
Ann, but since then, just talking
about this critical issue

00;18;51;04 - 00;18;54;09
of plastics in our world on land,

00;18;54;09 - 00;18;57;09
in sea, in the air, in our bodies.

00;18;57;13 - 00;19;02;08
And what can be done about
it is one of the biggest issues

00;19;02;17 - 00;19;05;26
to discuss,
and there are things that we can do.

00;19;06;17 - 00;19;09;26
It's a huge issue, but you are doing

00;19;09;26 - 00;19;12;26
and taking all these steps over
all these years.

00;19;13;12 - 00;19;16;23
So your project was installed in UC Davis

00;19;16;23 - 00;19;20;19
Design Museum back in 2011 or 2012.

00;19;21;14 - 00;19;24;14
(Guest Ann Savageau, Former UC Davis Design Professor) 
I think it was January of 2012. Yes.

00;19;25;09 - 00;19;30;21
And for that installation,
we had two parts.

00;19;30;21 - 00;19;31;12
We had.

00;19;31;12 - 00;19;32;12
First of all, the.

00;19;32;12 - 00;19;34;21
Problem of plastic bag pollution.

00;19;34;21 - 00;19;37;05
And then the solution.

00;19;37;05 - 00;19;40;17
And the solution, of course, was the bags

00;19;40;17 - 00;19;44;29
across the globe project
and the global participation in it.

00;19;44;29 - 00;19;48;10
The most dramatic element of

00;19;48;10 - 00;19;52;06
the installation was an enormous

00;19;52;27 - 00;19;56;14
whirlwind of plastic bags (see episode image).

00;19;56;14 - 00;20;00;28
That was, I think it was 11 or 13ft tall

00;20;01;06 - 00;20;04;06
and about 20ft across at the top,

00;20;04;24 - 00;20;08;19
and it was composed of 1000 plastic bags,

00;20;08;19 - 00;20;13;08
which back at that time
was the number of plastic bags

00;20;13;08 - 00;20;18;13
that the average couple in California
used each year.

00;20;18;25 - 00;20;22;27
Now, that is truly staggering
to think of that.

00;20;23;13 - 00;20;25;06
And with. Our.

00;20;25;06 - 00;20;31;25
Population, the millions
and millions of bags is just unacceptable.

00;20;31;25 - 00;20;36;24
And of course, most of those bags,
as you know, are not recycled.

00;20;37;03 - 00;20;39;01
Yes, there are containers.

00;20;39;01 - 00;20;40;13
At some grocery stores.

00;20;40;13 - 00;20;43;13
But a lot of that is not recycled.

00;20;43;26 - 00;20;48;15
(Leigh Anne) As you pointed out, cloth bags have been
used for thousands of years, it seems.

00;20;48;15 - 00;20;52;03
And why change from something

00;20;52;03 - 00;20;55;03
that is biodegradable to something
that's not?

00;20;55;24 - 00;20;58;07
(Ann) Yes, that's what I say.

00;20;58;07 - 00;21;02;24
Well, you know, the interesting thing when
I read about the history of plastic bags

00;21;03;13 - 00;21;06;25
and their inception was
that they were invented

00;21;06;26 - 00;21;09;29
by an engineer in Sweden

00;21;10;17 - 00;21;14;28
at a plastics company,
and he was concerned because in Sweden

00;21;14;28 - 00;21;20;15
at least, they were using too many,
not reusable bags.

00;21;20;15 - 00;21;22;17
They were using paper bags.

00;21;22;17 - 00;21;25;18
And that was causing deforestation

00;21;25;18 - 00;21;29;09
in Sweden at the time, back in 1965.

00;21;29;23 - 00;21;34;25
And so he thought he was doing
a good thing by inventing plastic bags.

00;21;34;25 - 00;21;36;28
But of course, as we know.

00;21;36;28 - 00;21;40;25
Like so many of these inventions, it
had unintended consequences.

00;21;42;07 - 00;21;43;11
They caught on like.

00;21;43;11 - 00;21;44;26
Wildfire in Europe.

00;21;44;26 - 00;21;49;19
And by 1979, 80% of the

00;21;49;26 - 00;21;52;00
Bag production in Europe.

00;21;52;00 - 00;21;53;12
Was plastic.

00;21;53;12 - 00;21;58;15
And then it became very popular
in the United States about the same time.

00;21;59;01 - 00;22;04;29
And by 1982, a lot of the big companies

00;22;04;29 - 00;22;09;03
were using plastic bags
like Safeway and and.

00;22;09;03 - 00;22;10;16
Kroger.

00;22;10;16 - 00;22;12;15
And it got worse and worse.

00;22;12;15 - 00;22;13;15
It snowballed.

00;22;13;15 - 00;22;18;04
And in 1997, Charles Moore of 5 Gyres

00;22;18;04 - 00;22;21;28
discovered the big gyre, the Garbage Patch

00;22;21;28 - 00;22;24;08
in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

00;22;24;08 - 00;22;25;12
And then we knew we.

00;22;25;12 - 00;22;27;13
Were really in trouble.

00;22;27;13 - 00;22;31;15
(Leigh Anne) Yes. I mean, I understand that
the Petro chemical companies

00;22;31;15 - 00;22;34;19
as well want to continue this production.

00;22;35;02 - 00;22;38;01
It's profitable for them.

00;22;38;01 - 00;22;39;29
(Ann) YES. It’s very profitable.

00;22;39;29 - 00;22;45;00
Quite a few years ago now,
when California had a ballot initiative

00;22;45;09 - 00;22;49;29
about banning plastic bags,
the petrochemical companies

00;22;50;09 - 00;22;55;04
fought it tooth and nail with big money,
and it was a hard battle.

00;22;55;20 - 00;22;58;23
I don't remember the exact result of it,
but I do know

00;22;58;23 - 00;23;02;00
that many communities have
either banned or.

00;23;02;08 - 00;23;04;21
Are charging. For plastic bags.

00;23;04;21 - 00;23;09;22
And at least in Davis,
what I am seeing is most people

00;23;09;22 - 00;23;10;16
either bring their own bags,

00;23;10;16 - 00;23;12;22
or ask for paper bags

00;23;12;22 - 00;23;15;22
now.

00;23;15;25 - 00;23;20;02
So I think there has been
a noticeable improvement,

00;23;20;02 - 00;23;23;15
at least in California and worldwide

00;23;23;15 - 00;23;26;15
though even up to 2011

00;23;26;20 - 00;23;31;09
there were a million plastic bags
being consumed every minute.

00;23;31;13 - 00;23;34;29
Well, that is just incredible.
(underlying music by pianist Eric Allaman begins.
Narrator talks next.)

00;23;38;06 - 00;23;41;28
(Narration by Leigh Anne, piano music by Eric Allaman) 
Plastic bags can take up to a thousand years

00;23;41;28 - 00;23;46;21
to break down in a landfill
or in the environment. As litter,

00;23;46;21 - 00;23;51;17
They break apart into tiny pieces
that contaminate soil and water.

00;23;52;03 - 00;23;56;20
To date,
Californians have used about 19 billion

00;23;57;00 - 00;23;59;28
plastic bags per year.

00;23;59;28 - 00;24;02;13
On September 23rd, 2024.

00;24;02;13 - 00;24;06;27
California Governor Gavin Newsom
signed into law state bill,

00;24;06;27 - 00;24;11;09
or SB 1053, which will replace

00;24;11;09 - 00;24;15;08
current state bill or SB 270.

00;24;15;21 - 00;24;19;16
On January 1st, 2026,

00;24;20;06 - 00;24;24;05
all statutory and regulatory program
requirements

00;24;24;05 - 00;24;29;00
enacted by SB 270 will remain in full effect

00;24;29;00 - 00;24;32;00
until then.

00;24;32;01 - 00;24;35;08
January 1st of this year, 2025

00;24;35;09 - 00;24;39;16
stores in California can only provide
pre checkout

00;24;39;16 - 00;24;43;12
bags made from recycled paper

00;24;43;12 - 00;24;46;17
or compostable materials.

00;24;47;00 - 00;24;51;29
Starting 2026, 
stores will only be allowed to offer

00;24;52;08 - 00;24;56;02
recycled paper bags at the point of sale.

00;24;56;27 - 00;25;00;29
Currently, the single use
carry up bag ban in California

00;25;01;11 - 00;25;05;21
SB 270 states
that customers cannot receive

00;25;06;00 - 00;25;08;29
single use plastic carryout bags

00;25;09;04 - 00;25;14;13
from most grocery
stores, retail stores with a pharmacy,

00;25;14;20 - 00;25;18;20
convenience stores, food marts, and liquor stores,

00;25;19;03 - 00;25;23;19
Stores, though, cannot require customers
to purchase a bag.

00;25;24;06 - 00;25;27;01
Every store
throughout California must comply

00;25;27;01 - 00;25;30;01
with the new law coming in 2026.

00;25;30;09 - 00;25;34;28
Every store throughout California
must comply with requirements

00;25;34;28 - 00;25;37;28
of the law SB 1053,

00;25;37;29 - 00;25;41;25
regardless of where the store is located.

00;25;42;12 - 00;25;48;02
If the store is in a city or county
that has its own bag ordinance, however,

00;25;48;14 - 00;25;52;29
the store may need to comply
with the local requirements as well.

00;25;53;17 - 00;25;56;16
And this again is SB 1053,

00;25;56;16 - 00;25;59;16
which goes into effect January 1st,

00;25;59;23 - 00;26;02;25
2026, a year from now.

00;26;03;17 - 00;26;06;11
A list of cities and counties
that have adopted Bag

00;26;06;11 - 00;26;09;23
ordinances is available at this website.

00;26;10;14 - 00;26;13;14
CalRecycle.CA.Gov/plastics/carryoutbag

00;26;13;20 - 00;26;15;06
Allaman’s piano music increases for a moment...then decreases...

00;26;17;21 - 00;26;23;03
This page may or may not contain
every local jurisdiction in California,

00;26;23;13 - 00;26;27;09
with an ordinance that restricts
or prohibits the use of certain bags.

00;26;27;23 - 00;26;30;13
The recommendation is to check

00;26;30;13 - 00;26;33;12
with your local city or county authority

00;26;33;16 - 00;26;37;02
to verify whether your city or county

00;26;37;13 - 00;26;41;09
has its own bag ban ordinance
that is in effect.

00;26;41;23 - 00;26;45;09
More information
on which stores must abide by the bag

00;26;45;09 - 00;26;48;13
ban can be found in the statute.

00;26;49;02 - 00;26;53;14
The link to that text is in our podcast
description.

00;26;54;06 - 00;26;57;23
If you're uncertain
whether a particular business meets

00;26;57;23 - 00;27;02;03
the definition of store
as provided in the statute,

00;27;02;09 - 00;27;06;28
the recommendation is
that you should consult with an attorney.

00;27;07;12 - 00;27;11;08
Statutory requirement
for reusable grocery bags vary

00;27;11;08 - 00;27;15;16
based on the kind of material
used to make the bags.

00;27;16;04 - 00;27;18;22
Again, for more information, see

00;27;18;22 - 00;27;21;22
CalRecycle.CA.gov.

00;27;21;27 - 00;27;25;19
Or just search online for California
Plastic Bag statute

00;27;26;02 - 00;27;29;02
SB 1053.

00;27;29;02 - 00;27;32;14
Now back to my conversation
with Ann Savageau....

00;27;38;13 - 00;27;41;13
(Interview continues with Leigh Anne) 
Describe some of the things that you're doing right now.

00;27;42;01 - 00;27;43;19
(Ann) I have retired.

00;27;43;19 - 00;27;48;06
But the bag project went on
from the Design Museum

00;27;48;19 - 00;27;51;26
to be featured in SOFA

00;27;51;26 - 00;27;55;08
Chicago. SOFA means

00;27;55;15 - 00;27;58;15
sculptural objects and functional art,

00;27;58;21 - 00;28;02;09
and it is an enormous
international art fair

00;28;02;09 - 00;28;05;13
that takes place in Chicago

00;28;06;02 - 00;28;08;26
every year in November.

00;28;08;26 - 00;28;12;13
And at the time,
I don't know if they still have

00;28;12;13 - 00;28;13;06
the program up, but at the time,

00;28;13;06 - 00;28;17;07
they had a program where they would 
invite either single

00;28;17;07 - 00;28;19;29
Artists or groups of art students

00;28;19;29 - 00;28;25;01
to submit projects,
and I was invited

00;28;25;13 - 00;28;29;20
to display the bag project there.

00;28;29;29 - 00;28;33;21
Now, I didn't have the means to create

00;28;33;21 - 00;28;36;21
the big whirlwind of bags.

00;28;36;25 - 00;28;39;25
So instead I created

00;28;40;14 - 00;28;44;23
a giant plastic model of a plastic bag.

00;28;44;24 - 00;28;48;01
It was, I think, 11ft

00;28;48;02 - 00;28;53;15
tall and seven feet across,
and it looked exactly like a plastic bag.

00;28;54;01 - 00;28;59;21
And we hung it at 30ft up in the air
and out of it,

00;28;59;29 - 00;29;04;27
We had it giving birth
to all of our sustainable bags.

00;29;04;27 - 00;29;08;02
We had just this flood of sustainable bags

00;29;08;02 - 00;29;11;11
coming out of it,
and it was very dramatic.

00;29;11;11 - 00;29;15;08
It was lit from the inside, so it glowed

00;29;15;12 - 00;29;18;16
and it was composed of

00;29;18;20 - 00;29;21;19
500 plastic bags, which

00;29;22;27 - 00;29;24;11
at that time was the number

00;29;24;11 - 00;29;28;00
of plastic bags used by a single person
(in California) in a year.

00;29;28;21 - 00;29;31;10
So it had that extra

00;29;31;10 - 00;29;34;10
symbolic meaning to it, too.

00;29;34;24 - 00;29;39;09
SOFA is only for about four days,

00;29;39;09 - 00;29;42;09
but it's attended
by tens of thousands of people.

00;29;42;15 - 00;29;45;14
So it got really good coverage.

00;29;46;00 - 00;29;48;24
And then I was invited by UC

00;29;48;24 - 00;29;52;28
Davis to do a display of BAG

00;29;52;28 - 00;29;57;26
at the Smithsonian
Folklife Festival on the Capitol Mall

00;29;58;05 - 00;30;02;23
that also attracts
tens of thousands of visitors.

00;30;02;24 - 00;30;07;07
There we did not have any kind of whirlwind
because we were in a tent,

00;30;07;17 - 00;30;10;13
but we did have the polybezore.

00;30;10;13 - 00;30;10;26
The poor camel

00;30;10;26 - 00;30;14;11
that died because of this polybezore.

00;30;14;11 - 00;30;20;07
At least I'm hoping
it can look down from heaven and see that

00;30;21;11 - 00;30;22;04
what caused

00;30;22;04 - 00;30;25;08
its death is actually causing some good now.

00;30;25;08 - 00;30;29;09
(Leigh Anne) Well, you are taking a bad situation
and doing something

00;30;29;09 - 00;30;32;18
positive with it
to generate the awareness.

00;30;33;02 - 00;30;37;14
(Ann) Yeah. (Leigh Anne) I do want to bring up this issue
of the new California law.

00;30;37;14 - 00;30;40;25
It's going into place in 2026 January,

00;30;41;01 - 00;30;44;18
and the reason why it had failed before is

00;30;44;18 - 00;30;48;08
because it was undermined by the pandemic.

00;30;48;21 - 00;30;53;29
Back then, we'd all begun to really get
into a new habit of bringing our bags

00;30;53;29 - 00;30;55;15
in, but then they wouldn't

00;30;55;15 - 00;30;58;19
let you bring the bags into the store
during the pandemic.

00;30;58;24 - 00;31;01;15
And it kind of undid what we had
just begun

00;31;01;15 - 00;31;04;16
to make as a habit
of bringing in cloth bags to the store.

00;31;04;16 - 00;31;07;29
I know it happened to me,
so I had to retrain myself

00;31;07;29 - 00;31;10;29
to start
bringing those cloth bags back in.

00;31;10;29 - 00;31;14;21
There are so many bags
that end up in the landfills.

00;31;15;04 - 00;31;18;22
California dumped 231,000

00;31;18;22 - 00;31;22;02
tons of plastic grocery and merchandise

00;31;22;02 - 00;31;25;14
bags in landfills in 2021,

00;31;25;29 - 00;31;29;15
and and and it's a tragedy.

00;31;29;27 - 00;31;34;15
And nearly 100,000
more tons happened in 2018.

00;31;34;16 - 00;31;39;13
So you can see how it's increasing
and it brings up ExxonMobil,

00;31;39;13 - 00;31;42;23
which we had talked
about the petrochemical companies before.

00;31;43;03 - 00;31;46;25
There's 12 states that have banned
plastic bags so far -- Colorado,

00;31;47;00 - 00;31;51;14
Rhode Island, some restrictions
in California, Connecticut, Delaware,

00;31;51;15 - 00;31;55;13
Hawaii, Maine, new Jersey,
New York, Oregon, Vermont and Washington

00;31;56;04 - 00;31;59;06
the same way that California's new
ban became law

00;31;59;06 - 00;32;02;25
the state opened another front
in its battle with plastic waste

00;32;02;25 - 00;32;08;07
by filing a lawsuit against ExxonMobil,
and that became big news

00;32;08;16 - 00;32;11;09
because they had been deceiving the public
to convince us

00;32;11;09 - 00;32;15;10
that plastic recycling could solve
the plastic waste

00;32;15;10 - 00;32;19;06
and pollution crisis
when they clearly knew it wasn't possible.

00;32;19;18 - 00;32;22;18
I just had to I had to interject
some of that information there.

00;32;22;22 - 00;32;27;04
(Ann) Oh, what you said
is very important information.

00;32;27;12 - 00;32;31;27
It has been an uphill battle
because they have unlimited funds

00;32;32;15 - 00;32;35;15
and the state is doing the right thing.

00;32;35;17 - 00;32;39;04
And it is really wonderful news
for all of us.

00;32;39;04 - 00;32;41;27
We can endure another year of this.

00;32;41;27 - 00;32;45;09
It's too bad
we have to, but at least yeah,

00;32;45;09 - 00;32;49;14
we're certain
that it will happen in January of 2026.

00;32;49;14 - 00;32;51;21
So that's that's great news.

00;32;51;21 - 00;32;54;04
(Leigh Anne) And we can all start
taking those steps again

00;32;54;04 - 00;32;58;04
to bring our cloth bags in
and not use the paper bags, you know,

00;32;58;04 - 00;33;02;04
because that's also another concept
we began to fall back into.

00;33;02;04 - 00;33;04;04
Well, I'm not using plastic.

00;33;04;04 - 00;33;07;04
I'm using paper
which is biodegradable, but we

00;33;07;12 - 00;33;10;15
we forget or we don't remember what

00;33;10;15 - 00;33;13;16
it's doing to our forests
and we need our forest.

00;33;13;28 - 00;33;16;01
To. Absorb. The carbon.

00;33;16;01 - 00;33;17;18
We produce.

00;33;17;18 - 00;33;19;16
(Ann) Uh huh. Yeah. That's right.

00;33;19;16 - 00;33;22;06
I would like to see on every paper bag

00;33;22;06 - 00;33;25;15
A fact or facts printed about

00;33;25;24 - 00;33;30;18
how many trees are destroyed
in order to make paper bags.

00;33;30;18 - 00;33;33;24
That would maybe give people pause.

00;33;34;17 - 00;33;37;11
Because out of sight, out of mind.

00;33;37;11 - 00;33;40;25
And this is one of the biggest problems
that we have.

00;33;41;04 - 00;33;43;17
If it's not right there
in front of us. Directly.

00;33;43;17 - 00;33;46;20
Affecting us,
then we don't think about it.

00;33;47;13 - 00;33;51;18
I used to, 
take my students on a field trip.

00;33;52;01 - 00;33;57;22
They had to go to the recycling center
here and see how that was run,

00;33;57;22 - 00;34;01;21
and that was absolutely shocking to them.

00;34;01;21 - 00;34;05;08
They had no idea what went on
in the recycling center

00;34;05;08 - 00;34;08;08
because it's close to the general public.

00;34;08;21 - 00;34;11;12
And then from the recycling center,

00;34;11;12 - 00;34;14;12
we went on to the yellow landfill

00;34;14;18 - 00;34;18;21
to see this giant mountain of refuse.

00;34;18;29 - 00;34;20;17
And on top of it.

00;34;20;17 - 00;34;23;01
There are bulldozers.

00;34;23;01 - 00;34;26;29
Bulldozing giant masses of garbage

00;34;27;04 - 00;34;31;13
and trash
and then covering it over with dirt.

00;34;31;13 - 00;34;34;23
And all the time, hundreds
of. Seagulls are.

00;34;34;28 - 00;34;38;23
Circling around and grabbing morsels
to eat.

00;34;39;13 - 00;34;42;09
It's an apocalyptic kind of thing,

00;34;42;09 - 00;34;46;20
and the smell of it,
the odor of it, it's just incredible.

00;34;47;07 - 00;34;51;06
I think everybody in the world
should have to visit a landfill.

00;34;51;09 - 00;34;52;24
(Leigh Anne) You just read my mind.

00;34;52;24 - 00;34;55;01
I was just thinking, this is great.

00;34;55;01 - 00;34;59;17
I think this should be taught in
every school, every university,

00;34;59;21 - 00;35;03;10
that they do these tours
and they see how it is done,

00;35;03;15 - 00;35;06;18
in fact, in leadership
courses that they also do.

00;35;06;24 - 00;35;12;04
I took a leadership course in Mendocino
County, Leadership Mendocino, it's called

00;35;12;17 - 00;35;15;09
you go around
to the different aspects of your county

00;35;15;09 - 00;35;16;27
to see how everything operates.

00;35;16;27 - 00;35;19;13
Well, recycling
should be a big part of that.

00;35;19;13 - 00;35;20;21
(Ann) Yes, it should.

00;35;22;12 - 00;35;24;26
Yes. Bringing up landfills.

00;35;24;26 - 00;35;29;19
Do I have a few minutes to tell you
about a very interesting company or not?

00;35;29;21 - 00;35;31;00
(Leigh Anne) Yes, you do.

00;35;31;00 - 00;35;36;12
I also want to find out some of the latest
solutions today for plastics.

00;35;36;18 - 00;35;40;08
And I do want to find out
some things about design, what's being

00;35;40;08 - 00;35;42;06
taught about design these days.

00;35;42;06 - 00;35;43;09
(Ann) Oh okay.

00;35;43;09 - 00;35;45;20
Which one would you like. To cover first?

00;35;45;20 - 00;35;48;20
The one that you were
just about to go into.

00;35;49;02 - 00;35;54;10
I wanted to tell you about a very novel
company this called Conserve India.

00;35;54;22 - 00;35;58;19
I took two of our undergraduate textile
and design

00;35;58;19 - 00;36;03;03
majors there, two lovely
young women in the summer of

00;36;03;03 - 00;36;09;01
I think it was 2010 to be service
interns.

00;36;09;01 - 00;36;13;11
Now, this company trains people who. Are.

00;36;14;02 - 00;36;15;02
In India.

00;36;15;02 - 00;36;17;14
Called rag pickers.

00;36;17;14 - 00;36;19;12
These are people at the very.

00;36;19;12 - 00;36;23;13
Bottom of the economic scale
who make a living

00;36;23;29 - 00;36;27;07
by going into landfills

00;36;27;18 - 00;36;32;23
and scavenging whatever they can find
and then sell, resell.

00;36;32;25 - 00;36;34;21
So these are. People who are.

00;36;34;21 - 00;36;38;00
Working under
incredibly dangerous conditions

00;36;38;00 - 00;36;42;27
because there are no safety regulations
to protect them.

00;36;43;04 - 00;36;46;01
And I'm. Sure that they are exposed.

00;36;46;01 - 00;36;49;20
To many dangerous microbes
at the same time.

00;36;49;29 - 00;36;52;05
And they live in communities.

00;36;52;05 - 00;36;53;24
Their children are there.

00;36;53;24 - 00;36;57;09
Their children have almost
no educational opportunity.

00;36;57;09 - 00;37;01;14
But Conserve India, hires
them, trains them,

00;37;02;03 - 00;37;05;03
and provides a school for their children.

00;37;05;12 - 00;37;09;17
And what they do
is they take plastic bags,

00;37;10;04 - 00;37;16;06
and they have invented a special process
that heat bonds the bags together.

00;37;16;06 - 00;37;18;01
In several layers.

00;37;18;01 - 00;37;21;26
And they make a non-woven
fabric out of it,

00;37;22;06 - 00;37;27;13
which they then design
into beautiful handbags.

00;37;27;13 - 00;37;32;09
I mean, you would never know
that these handbags, came from

00;37;32;21 - 00;37;37;07
plastic bags
scavenged from a dump in India.

00;37;37;28 - 00;37;39;20
They do, guitar.

00;37;39;20 - 00;37;45;21
Cases, business briefcases, backpacks,
you name it.

00;37;45;21 - 00;37;48;15
They can do all kinds of beautiful things.

00;37;48;15 - 00;37;49;29
So I would.

00;37;49;29 - 00;37;52;29
Urge your listeners or your viewers.

00;37;53;00 - 00;37;56;04
To go to Conserve India's website

00;37;56;04 - 00;38;00;09
and take a look,
because that's a real success story.

00;38;00;09 - 00;38;07;03
I think 
(Leigh Anne) Tthat's a real role model for
others to be able to do similar projects.

00;38;07;03 - 00;38;10;02
(Ann) Yes, we should be doing that
here in the US.

00;38;10;06 - 00;38;14;09
Do you want me to talk about the new
plastic that has just been invented?

00;38;14;09 - 00;38;15;28
(Leigh Anne) Yes, let's do that.

00;38;15;28 - 00;38;18;10
The results were published.

00;38;18;10 - 00;38;21;10
If you're interested
in the journal Science

00;38;21;23 - 00;38;24;11
in November November 22nd.

00;38;24;11 - 00;38;26;24
And this is very exciting news.

00;38;26;24 - 00;38;29;29
This is out of a research institute
in Japan.

00;38;29;29 - 00;38;31;00
And the.

00;38;31;00 - 00;38;31;26
Researchers.

00;38;31;26 - 00;38;36;25
There I'm reading about it
says they have a new durable,

00;38;36;25 - 00;38;41;28
biodegradable plastic
that breaks down in seawater,

00;38;42;05 - 00;38;46;12
offering a potential solution
to the microplastic pollution.

00;38;46;19 - 00;38;49;27
And this material is based on something
called.

00;38;49;27 - 00;38;52;27
Supra molecular structures.

00;38;53;08 - 00;38;58;13
And it can be tailored to different uses
and is fully recyclable,

00;38;58;29 - 00;39;02;01
enhancing its environmental benefits.

00;39;02;04 - 00;39;04;22
So it's not only as strong

00;39;04;22 - 00;39;08;26
as conventional plastics,
but it's also biodegradable.

00;39;09;24 - 00;39;14;29
And by addressing this issue,
it holds the potential to significantly

00;39;14;29 - 00;39;19;05
reduce the microplastic pollution
in our environment.

00;39;19;10 - 00;39;24;22
(Leigh Anne) So when it breaks down, it's
not breaking down into micro plastics then.

00;39;25;11 - 00;39;30;07
(Ann) No. This is the interesting thing
about supra molecular plastics.

00;39;30;07 - 00;39;33;22
I'm not a scientist, so I don't know
what that means, but it says that.

00;39;34;09 - 00;39;39;17
These are polymers with structures
held together by reversible

00;39;39;21 - 00;39;42;16
interactions. So you can reverse the

00;39;42;16 - 00;39;47;27
Interaction and break it down
into its original components.

00;39;48;25 - 00;39;54;21
What is so interesting is that
these components, which are called.

00;39;54;21 - 00;39;56;18
Monomers or.

00;39;56;18 - 00;40;02;20
Single molecules,
can be metabolized by bacteria that.

00;40;02;20 - 00;40;04;03
Ensure that they are.

00;40;04;03 - 00;40;08;02
Biodegradable
once it's dissolved into those components.

00;40;08;27 - 00;40;11;21
So it is just so exciting.

00;40;12;24 - 00;40;15;00
(Leigh Anne) And this was from Science?

00;40;15;00 - 00;40;19;21
(Ann) Yes. The journal Science, November 22nd,
if anybody wants to look at it.

00;40;20;05 - 00;40;24;00
Now, the interesting thing
is that this new type of plastic.

00;40;24;06 - 00;40;25;10
Is very versatile.

00;40;25;10 - 00;40;29;10
It can be customized to need,
and it can be

00;40;29;10 - 00;40;31;08
Hard and scratch resistant.

00;40;31;08 - 00;40;32;24
It can have. Rubber.

00;40;32;24 - 00;40;35;24
Silicone like properties.

00;40;36;00 - 00;40;39;19
It can have strong weight
bearing properties.

00;40;40;04 - 00;40;45;06
And or it can have low tensile
flexible properties.

00;40;45;06 - 00;40;47;22
So all of those are possible.

00;40;47;22 - 00;40;51;01
So it can meet a whole array of needs.

00;40;51;07 - 00;40;52;10
That for.

00;40;52;10 - 00;40;56;14
For industry
which is extremely important that it meet

00;40;56;14 - 00;40;59;14
all of those kinds of needs.

00;40;59;18 - 00;41;03;20
So in the soil they put it to a test.

00;41;03;26 - 00;41;05;18
It degraded completely.

00;41;05;18 - 00;41;08;13
Over the course of just 10 days,
which is 

00;41;08;13 - 00;41;09;18
Super fast.

00;41;09;18 - 00;41;15;03
(Leigh Anne) That is, I was hearing Marcus Eriksen
of 5 Gyres, who was talking about

00;41;15;15 - 00;41;19;16
he'd go back to certain installations
to see what would break down.

00;41;19;16 - 00;41;22;01
It would take sometimes months.

00;41;22;01 - 00;41;23;08
So that’s fast.

00;41;24;07 - 00;41;25;05
(Ann) yes, But the interesting

00;41;25;05 - 00;41;29;06
thing, the kicker is that it also supplies
the soil with

00;41;29;06 - 00;41;30;17
Phosphorus.

00;41;30;17 - 00;41;31;23
And nitrogen that.

00;41;31;23 - 00;41;33;21
Are similar to a fertilizer.

00;41;33;21 - 00;41;35;22
Isn't that wonderful?

00;41;35;22 - 00;41;39;01
I mean, this is just extraordinary news.

00;41;39;11 - 00;41;41;21
(Leigh Anne) It is extraordinary.

00;41;41;21 - 00;41;43;22
Now, where does the material come from?

00;41;43;22 - 00;41;46;15
That's what I'm not understanding.

00;41;46;15 - 00;41;49;22
Well, it is called a supra

00;41;49;22 - 00;41;50;29
Molecular.

00;41;50;29 - 00;41;53;29
Plastic. 
(Music and narration begins by Leigh Anne)

00;41;58;01 - 00;41;59;27
After we recorded this interview,

00;41;59;27 - 00;42;04;03
our research led to a December 17th, 2024
article

00;42;04;13 - 00;42;07;18
from the UK based Zero Carbon Academy

00;42;08;02 - 00;42;11;11
titled Bye Bye Microplastics?

00;42;11;25 - 00;42;15;10
Japanese researchers create revolutionary

00;42;15;10 - 00;42;18;18
plastic which dissolves in salt water.

00;42;18;27 - 00;42;21;21
But before I read from that article,
it's important

00;42;21;21 - 00;42;25;21
to understand
what a monomer is in scientific terms,

00;42;26;12 - 00;42;29;09
a monomer is a small molecule

00;42;29;09 - 00;42;32;13
or atom that bonds with other monomers

00;42;32;19 - 00;42;36;20
to form a larger
molecule called a polymer.

00;42;37;25 - 00;42;39;19
Now, here's what the Zero

00;42;39;19 - 00;42;42;19
Carbon Academy article says.

00;42;44;01 - 00;42;46;07
Researchers at the RIKON Center

00;42;46;07 - 00;42;50;07
for Emergent Matter Science in Japan
have developed

00;42;50;07 - 00;42;54;17
a groundbreaking new plastic,
which is not only biodegradable

00;42;54;27 - 00;42;58;11
but able to fully break down in seawater.

00;42;58;23 - 00;43;01;14
The new plastics have been created
by combining

00;43;01;14 - 00;43;06;02
two ionic monomers that form cross-linked

00;43;06;06 - 00;43;10;20
salt bridges,
which provide strength and flexibility.

00;43;11;03 - 00;43;15;15
Initial tests combined a common food
additive, and both components

00;43;15;15 - 00;43;20;21
can be metabolized
by bacteria, ensuring biodegradability.

00;43;20;22 - 00;43;25;00
Once the plastic is dissolved
into its components.

00;43;25;14 - 00;43;29;22
The researchers found that in soils,
sheets of the new plastics degraded

00;43;29;27 - 00;43;33;21
completely over the course of ten days,

00;43;33;29 - 00;43;39;14
supplying the soil with phosphorus
and nitrogen similar to fertilizer.

00;43;39;20 - 00;43;43;21
Using this method, the team at RIKEN
was able to generate plastics

00;43;43;21 - 00;43;47;23
that had varying degrees of hardness
and tensile strength, finding

00;43;47;23 - 00;43;52;26
all were comparable or in some cases
better than conventional plastics.

00;43;53;12 - 00;43;58;18
This means that the new type of plastic
can be customized to meet demand.

00;43;58;24 - 00;44;01;24
Hard scratch resistant plastics, rubber,

00;44;01;24 - 00;44;06;02
silicone like plastics,
strong weight bearing plastics,

00;44;06;14 - 00;44;10;15
or low tensile
flexible plastics are all possible.

00;44;10;25 - 00;44;14;04
The material has been designed
as a potential alternative

00;44;14;05 - 00;44;18;12
to traditional plastics,
which are non-sustainable and harm

00;44;18;12 - 00;44;23;02
the environment, particularly oceans,
where current biodegradable plastics

00;44;23;02 - 00;44;27;21
such as PLA cannot be degraded
as they are insoluble.

00;44;30;15 - 00;44;32;19
Further benefits of the new plastics

00;44;32;19 - 00;44;36;03
are that they are nontoxic
and non-flammable,

00;44;36;13 - 00;44;39;13
meaning no CO2 emissions.

00;44;39;28 - 00;44;45;04
We encourage everyone to keep an eye
on this new development and see where

00;44;45;04 - 00;44;49;10
that leads towards addressing the enormous

00;44;49;10 - 00;44;52;09
plastic problem on our planet.

00;44;53;11 - 00;44;55;12
Thank you for listening to Resilient

00;44;55;12 - 00;44;58;12
Earth Radio. (end narration)

00;44;58;26 - 00;45;00;02
(Ann continues in the talk radio interview)
I do want to add

00;45;00;02 - 00;45;03;06
that I am retired now, but another

00;45;03;06 - 00;45;06;18
Professor is taking over what I did

00;45;06;18 - 00;45;09;18
For the. Students. 
(underlying music by Eric Allaman ends)

00;45;09;20 - 00;45;11;03
This course that I taught

00;45;11;03 - 00;45;14;23
emphasized
the concept of cradle to cradle,

00;45;15;04 - 00;45;18;11
and that means that anything we take

00;45;18;17 - 00;45;21;25
from the Earth has to go back into the

00;45;21;25 - 00;45;22;20
Earth

00;45;22;20 - 00;45;26;27
In a way that it is non harmful
and non poisoning.

00;45;27;09 - 00;45;31;28
The concept of cradle to cradle
was developed by a man architect

00;45;31;28 - 00;45;37;02
named William McDonough,
and he thought about this concept

00;45;37;02 - 00;45;40;19
and decided
that this was really what we need to do,

00;45;40;29 - 00;45;44;20
that any human production, consumption

00;45;44;20 - 00;45;49;19
and then discarding needs to be imitating

00;45;49;19 - 00;45;51;23
what our Mother Earth already

00;45;51;23 - 00;45;54;14
does and has already taught us.

00;45;54;14 - 00;45;57;07
So he has developed textiles

00;45;57;07 - 00;45;59;13
That are fully biodegradable.

00;45;59;13 - 00;46;05;18
He has developed a paper
that is biodegradable, etc., etc.

00;46;05;18 - 00;46;09;11
I mean, I'm sure that he's developed
a lot of things that I don't

00;46;09;11 - 00;46;13;10
even know of today because I haven't
kept up with his research.

00;46;13;29 - 00;46;15;17
The students were.

00;46;15;17 - 00;46;16;07
Really.

00;46;16;07 - 00;46;20;05
Really receptive to this idea, and another

00;46;20;12 - 00;46;26;08
very important concept for students
is to design for disassembly.

00;46;26;08 - 00;46;29;19
And that means that if you design anything

00;46;29;19 - 00;46;32;21
large that has a lot of components, like.

00;46;33;00 - 00;46;36;00
Our refrigerators and dishwashers.

00;46;36;00 - 00;46;40;03
And washing machines and dryers
and furnaces,

00;46;40;12 - 00;46;43;24
all of them should be designed
in such a way

00;46;43;24 - 00;46;47;20
that they can be disassembled
into their component parts.

00;46;48;02 - 00;46;52;01
And those component parts
then can be safely

00;46;52;04 - 00;46;54;04
Either recycled or

00;46;54;04 - 00;46;57;05
Safely broken down in some way
that doesn't harm the Earth.

00;46;57;05 - 00;46;59;20
(Leigh Anne) Much more sustainable.

00;46;59;20 - 00;47;00;24
(Ann) Yes, that's right.

00;47;00;24 - 00;47;03;24
And this is a big concept in Europe.

00;47;03;28 - 00;47;05;23
It's very popular there.

00;47;05;23 - 00;47;09;22
I don't know
exactly what's happening here in the US,

00;47;09;22 - 00;47;13;27
but we certainly need to do something
like that in the U.S.

00;47;13;27 - 00;47;16;27
to instead of landfilling large

00;47;17;03 - 00;47;21;06
appliances and machines,
we really need to do this. Yes.

00;47;21;21 - 00;47;22;00
(Leigh Anne) Yeah.

00;47;22;00 - 00;47;25;09
Machines and also even solar panels.

00;47;25;20 - 00;47;28;18
(Ann) Yes. Solar panels are a big problem.

00;47;28;18 - 00;47;32;04
I'm assuming somebody
is working on that problem, I hope so.

00;47;32;07 - 00;47;33;22
We need to because.

00;47;33;22 - 00;47;36;24
They are very important
to our energy grid.

00;47;37;04 - 00;47;40;17
But we can't keep landfilling these things
anymore.

00;47;40;18 - 00;47;41;06
Yeah.

00;47;41;06 - 00;47;46;25
(Leigh Anne) One encouraging thing I have seen lately
on energy storage batteries

00;47;47;07 - 00;47;52;16
and lithium has been used
so much in batteries, and there's issues

00;47;52;16 - 00;47;57;21
with lithium like exploding
and other things, but salt! Sodium!

00;47;57;24 - 00;48;00;24
is one of the ones on the horizon

00;48;00;24 - 00;48;05;22
as a possible real solution
in alternative salt batteries.

00;48;05;24 - 00;48;07;06
(Ann) Wouldn't that be exciting?

00;48;07;06 - 00;48;10;06
(Leigh Anne) Right. Much more available.

00;48;10;09 - 00;48;13;01
Less destructive to our world

00;48;13;01 - 00;48;16;01
wouldn't even need to go in
for cobalt and magnesium.

00;48;16;04 - 00;48;19;15
That's a big driver for potential deep
sea mining.

00;48;19;16 - 00;48;22;16
There's a lot of potential fallout
with deep sea mining

00;48;22;18 - 00;48;26;18
disturbing our ocean floors
that has been sequestering carbon

00;48;26;18 - 00;48;28;08
for millions of years.

00;48;28;08 - 00;48;29;26
(Ann) You’re making an excellent point.

00;48;29;26 - 00;48;34;13
All of these things are on the horizon,
and the emerging field

00;48;34;13 - 00;48;37;14
of environmental engineering is exciting.

00;48;37;14 - 00;48;41;08
I think there are a lot of young people
who are so concerned

00;48;41;08 - 00;48;45;02
about what is happening today
that they are choosing.

00;48;45;02 - 00;48;46;15
Majors (at universities)

00;48;46;15 - 00;48;49;09
That teach them the expertise to address

00;48;49;09 - 00;48;50;11
these really large

00;48;50;11 - 00;48;52;22
problems that we have now.

00;48;52;22 - 00;48;54;04
To me, that gives me a real.

00;48;54;04 - 00;48;56;03
Hope for the future.

00;48;56;03 - 00;48;58;15
Things are looking pretty bad, but.

00;48;58;15 - 00;48;59;13
There's progress.

00;48;59;13 - 00;49;03;18
Just around the corner,
and there's going to be a giant.

00;49;03;18 - 00;49;05;12
Flowering of.

00;49;05;12 - 00;49;07;25
New possibilities.

00;49;07;25 - 00;49;10;13
For. Saving the planet.

00;49;10;13 - 00;49;13;11
(Leigh Anne) That's so encouraging to hear,
because it is our next

00;49;13;11 - 00;49;16;18
generations who are handling these issues.

00;49;16;18 - 00;49;19;23
And as a former professor at UC Davis,

00;49;20;00 - 00;49;25;08
can you advise some of the parents
and young people out there, universities

00;49;25;08 - 00;49;28;23
that are teaching
some of these new sustainable ways? 

00;49;29;06 - 00;49;34;24
(Ann) Yes. I would encourage any high school students
before they declare a major in.

00;49;34;27 - 00;49;37;22
College to really do some research.

00;49;37;22 - 00;49;39;28
Find out what kinds of

00;49;39;28 - 00;49;41;22
Majors are.

00;49;41;22 - 00;49;44;27
Available in various colleges

00;49;44;27 - 00;49;48;05
before they accept an invitation
to go there.

00;49;48;24 - 00;49;55;23
Really, the only way to do that,
is to do an internet search on hot topics

00;49;55;23 - 00;50;02;15
of interest in environmental problems,
and whether it is fashion textiles.

00;50;02;24 - 00;50;08;03
There are now being invented
out of the aloe plant that.

00;50;08;03 - 00;50;10;10
Are fully biodegradable.

00;50;10;10 - 00;50;13;27
You can imagine aloe instead of cotton.

00;50;14;12 - 00;50;16;19
You don't have to have pesticides.

00;50;16;19 - 00;50;17;19
It's tough.

00;50;17;19 - 00;50;19;23
You don't have to have a lot of water.

00;50;19;23 - 00;50;20;01
There are so many

00;50;20;01 - 00;50;23;15
ways of. Agriculture.

00;50;23;17 - 00;50;28;03
New perennial plants
being developed by the Land Institute. 
(underlying piano music by Eric Allaman begins again)

00;50;29;04 - 00;50;31;17
The Land Institute is incredible.

00;50;31;17 - 00;50;36;08
They've invented kernza, 
which is this perennial crop

00;50;36;08 - 00;50;39;28
that has roots that go down 12ft deep

00;50;40;18 - 00;50;43;18
so it can withstand drought.

00;50;43;21 - 00;50;47;09
And you don't have to disk up the soil

00;50;47;09 - 00;50;48;20
Every year.

00;50;48;20 - 00;50;51;20
Destroying all the microbial communities.

00;50;52;00 - 00;50;54;07
So all of these things are

00;50;54;07 - 00;50;59;05
Just incredible and should give us cause

00;50;59;05 - 00;51;02;07
for hope.

00;51;04;08 - 00;51;06;17
I come from a long line of.

00;51;06;17 - 00;51;07;12
Farmers.

00;51;07;12 - 00;51;11;21
And even though I don't live on a farm,
I'm very interested in what's happening

00;51;11;21 - 00;51;14;02
and I'm really hoping that. More.

00;51;14;02 - 00;51;19;17
Young people with progressive views
will go into agriculture and start

00;51;19;27 - 00;51;23;10
developing
some wonderful solutions for us.

00;51;23;21 - 00;51;28;13
(Leigh Anne) Well Ann, I think that's going to be
a good way to end our show today,

00;51;28;13 - 00;51;31;21
but I wanted to give you like
maybe another 60 seconds

00;51;31;21 - 00;51;35;20
to summarize some of the things
you'd like to leave with our audience.

00;51;36;05 - 00;51;37;09
Well, thank you.

00;51;38;14 - 00;51;40;27
Clearly, in your daily life,

00;51;40;27 - 00;51;43;23
please try to think about.

00;51;43;23 - 00;51;45;13
Where all the products

00;51;45;13 - 00;51;47;10
That you use and discard

00;51;47;10 - 00;51;48;26
Where they're going.

00;51;48;26 - 00;51;53;23
They're not just going out there
in the atmosphere and disappearing.

00;51;54;04 - 00;51;59;13
They do go to some place on the earth
and something happens to them.

00;51;59;14 - 00;52;03;26
So if you could always ask yourself,
now when I buy this

00;52;04;08 - 00;52;09;02
and then I discard it,
is it going to add to the pollution.

00;52;09;02 - 00;52;11;04
Overload of the earth.

00;52;11;04 - 00;52;13;09
And do I really need it then?

00;52;13;09 - 00;52;15;19
I think that's really important.

00;52;15;19 - 00;52;17;06
(Leigh Anne) Yes, and I think it would be great

00;52;17;06 - 00;52;20;27
for our manufacturers
to be looking for these solutions

00;52;20;27 - 00;52;26;01
to wrap products in for the store
that are biodegradable and sustainable,

00;52;26;01 - 00;52;30;21
like cheeses and other things
that we go to buy at the store

00;52;31;04 - 00;52;35;22
or have a plan for recycling the waste
that's there.

00;52;35;23 - 00;52;40;25
Like in Germany, they had a plan where
you could leave the materials in the store

00;52;41;01 - 00;52;44;12
and they would recycle them there,
and they had a better

00;52;44;12 - 00;52;47;21
recycling method than we have
had here in the United States.

00;52;48;03 - 00;52;51;16
I would like to see more of that happening

00;52;51;16 - 00;52;55;15
as so it gives us, as consumers,
more choices.

00;52;55;15 - 00;52;59;08
Yes, because it's not so easy
to go in a grocery store

00;52;59;08 - 00;53;03;02
and something that can keep our products
fresh

00;53;03;07 - 00;53;06;17
for as long as they can,
but they're biodegradable.

00;53;06;24 - 00;53;07;21
That's what we need.

00;53;07;21 - 00;53;09;14
(Ann) Absolutely, absolutely.

00;53;09;14 - 00;53;11;14
You make such a good point.

00;53;11;14 - 00;53;16;06
The plastic wrap
business is a dreadful mess.

00;53;16;06 - 00;53;20;00
And if these new plastics were used

00;53;20;00 - 00;53;23;07
and you knew that you could put it into.

00;53;23;07 - 00;53;24;06
Your vegetable.

00;53;24;06 - 00;53;29;20
Garden and it would biodegrade in ten
days, wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?

00;53;29;20 - 00;53;31;09
Oh my goodness.

00;53;31;09 - 00;53;33;25
(Leigh Anne) Boy, would that be a wonderful thing!

00;53;33;25 - 00;53;37;05
All right, well Ann Savageau,
thank you so much

00;53;37;05 - 00;53;40;05
for joining us today from your home.

00;53;40;05 - 00;53;45;19
(Ann) Thank you for having me.
(Leigh Anne) we we really appreciated having you
here on Resilient Earth Radio.

00;53;45;19 - 00;53;48;19
And I'm glad I met you at
The Gualala Arts Center.

00;53;48;23 - 00;53;49;13
(Ann) Thank you.

00;53;49;13 - 00;53;52;03
It was nice to talk to you again, Leigh Anne.

00;53;52;03 - 00;53;54;11
(Leigh Anne) I'll have to have you back. 
(Ann) Bye.
(Leigh Anne) Take care.

00;54;05;13 - 00;54;07;20
(Narration by Leigh Anne with music by Eric Allaman) 
Every year, the world produces

00;54;07;20 - 00;54;11;13
more than 400 million tons of new plastic.

00;54;11;29 - 00;54;15;15
Plastic production could climb about 70%

00;54;15;23 - 00;54;19;08
by 2040 without policy changes.

00;54;22;13 - 00;54;25;13
There is an international plastics treaty

00;54;25;14 - 00;54;29;13
currently being negotiated
under the United Nations, that aims

00;54;29;13 - 00;54;34;07
to create a legally binding agreement
to tackle global plastic pollution

00;54;34;07 - 00;54;38;01
by addressing the entire lifecycle
of plastics.

00;54;40;06 - 00;54;43;20
From production
and design to waste management,

00;54;43;29 - 00;54;49;25
with the goal of significantly reducing
plastic waste and transitioning towards

00;54;50;01 - 00;54;55;12
a circular economy through measures
like phasing out unnecessary plastic

00;54;55;12 - 00;55;00;25
products, improving recycling
and promoting sustainable alternatives,

00;55;00;29 - 00;55;04;01
ultimately aiming
to curb plastic pollution

00;55;04;06 - 00;55;07;06
by 2040.

00;55;08;19 - 00;55;09;13
However,

00;55;09;13 - 00;55;13;16
the fifth, and what was to be
the final United Nations session

00;55;13;16 - 00;55;18;06
to produce the first legally binding
treaty on plastics pollution,

00;55;18;17 - 00;55;22;06
including in the oceans,
ended in an impasse

00;55;22;14 - 00;55;25;08
late November 2024,

00;55;25;08 - 00;55;28;09
where nations were gathered
in Busan, South Korea.

00;55;28;20 - 00;55;32;25
Negotiators agreed to resume the talks
in 2025.

00;55;33;22 - 00;55;37;18
More than 100 countries
want the treaty to limit production,

00;55;37;24 - 00;55;42;03
as well as tackle cleanup and recycling,
and many have said

00;55;42;03 - 00;55;45;21
that it is essential
to address chemicals of concern.

00;55;46;02 - 00;55;49;14
But for some plastic producing and oil

00;55;49;14 - 00;55;53;03
and gas countries that crosses a red line,

00;55;54;04 - 00;55;56;22
they just could not agree to a treaty

00;55;56;22 - 00;56;01;11
that would reduce
the total plastic on Earth and put global,

00;56;01;17 - 00;56;04;29
legally binding
controls on toxic chemicals

00;56;05;09 - 00;56;08;09
used to make plastics.

00;56;08;23 - 00;56;11;25
And for any proposal
to make it into the treaty,

00;56;12;07 - 00;56;15;07
every nation must agree to it.

00;56;16;10 - 00;56;21;00
In a January 21st, 2025, email
from the UNs

00;56;21;00 - 00;56;25;12
international negotiating committee, INC
or INC.

00;56;26;14 - 00;56;29;19
the agency said it would not yet
confirm the venue,

00;56;29;20 - 00;56;33;01
time and date
for the next negotiating session,

00;56;33;19 - 00;56;36;24
but it will be in the summer of 2025

00;56;36;24 - 00;56;39;26
and it will be called INC 5.2.

00;56;41;02 - 00;56;44;17
When plans are confirmed,
information will be available

00;56;44;17 - 00;56;47;17
on the International
Negotiating Committee's website.

00;56;51;23 - 00;56;53;13
This information was compiled

00;56;53;13 - 00;56;57;08
from NPR along with information from Carl

00;56;57;08 - 00;57;01;07
Nettleton, board
member of OpenOceans Global.

00;57;01;18 - 00;57;05;11
Charles Goddard,
editorial director for Economist Impact,

00;57;05;21 - 00;57;10;29
a division of The Economist,
and Sarah Carr of the OCTO Group,

00;57;11;05 - 00;57;15;16
which stands
for Open Communications for the Ocean.

00;57;16;17 - 00;57;17;18
For more insight

00;57;17;18 - 00;57;21;10
on these issues,
we recommend you check out 

00;57;21;10 - 00;57;25;04
The Scientest’s Coalition
for an Effective Plastics Treaty at IKHAPP.

00;57;26;07 - 00;57;27;20
And that's IKHAPP

00;57;27;20 - 00;57;30;22
(like I know happy.)

00;57;31;02 - 00;57;34;26
But it really stands for the International
Knowledge Hub

00;57;35;04 - 00;57;38;04
against Plastic Pollution.

00;57;39;12 - 00;57;43;12
That's IKHAPP.org.

00;57;57;06 - 00;57;59;25
(CLOSING MUSIC AND CREDITS)
Thanks for listening
to the Resilient Earth podcast,

00;57;59;25 - 00;58;05;07
where we talk about critical issues
and positive actions for our planet.

00;58;06;12 - 00;58;09;27
Resilient
Earth is produced by Planet Centric Media,

00;58;10;11 - 00;58;15;05
a 501 C3 nonprofit, and Sea Storm
Studios, Inc.,

00;58;15;17 - 00;58;18;09
located on the rugged North Sonoma

00;58;18;09 - 00;58;21;09
coast of Northern California.

00;58;21;22 - 00;58;26;20
I'm Leigh Anne Lindsey, producer and host,
along with co-hosts and co-producers

00;58;26;26 - 00;58;31;03
Scott and Tree (Theresa) Mercer of Mendonoma Whale and Seal Study.

00;58;31;03 - 00;58;34;22
Located on the South Mendocino and North

00;58;34;22 - 00;58;37;22
Sonoma coast.

00;58;38;26 - 00;58;41;26
The music for this podcast is by Eric
Allaman,

00;58;41;26 - 00;58;46;28
an international composer,
pianist and writer living in

00;58;46;28 - 00;58;48;09
The Sea Ranch
(North Sonoma Coast, CA, USA)

00;58;48;09 - 00;58;52;00
Discover
more of his music, animations, ballet,

00;58;52;12 - 00;58;56;26
stage and film work at EricAllaman.com.

00;58;58;08 - 00;58;59;28
You can find Resilient Earth

00;58;59;28 - 00;59;03;19
on Spotify, Apple and Amazon podcasts,

00;59;03;28 - 00;59;06;29
iHeart radio, YouTube, SoundCloud

00;59;07;08 - 00;59;10;06
and wherever you find your podcasts.

00;59;10;06 - 00;59;13;29
Please support us
by subscribing or donating to our cause.
(Brilliiant orchestral ending by Allaman’s Castle by the Sea)


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